Diamond Dude

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ChaosMachine

New Member
How would these cards be played if I used them from the graveyard thru Diamond Dudes effect. Shallow Grave. Pot of Avarice. Spell Reproduction (the one i really want to know)


Thanks again to you guys for your help.
 
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You can't. It must have a reference to the tribute you did for the cost. But since you tossed it off with Diamond Dude, there was no cost and no tribute. Basically, Metamorphosis cannot resolve properly. (Kinda like sending Pot of Avarice with Diamond Dude when you don't have 5 monsters in the graveyard) You can get this ruling with Soul Exchange use a face-down on your foe and trying to tribute it for Metamorphosis (The ruling is you can't, since you don't know what it is since it's not your monster. So there is no reference to the LV and thus it cannot resolve properly)
 
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while were on the subject of diamond dude it's text has been changed. instead of activating a spell card that diamond dude sends to the graveyard you activate the effect of the spell card.there for theres no cost.

emeny of justice diamond dude.once per turn you can look at the top card of your deck if it's a normal spell card, send it to the graveyard and you can avtivate the normal spell card during the mainphase of your next turn.

this text meant you still needed to pay the cost of actviating the normal spell card because it was activating the spell card not it's effect. but it doesn't matter since they've changed the effect in the aster pheonix pack.

unlike the new one from the aster phoenix pack
once per turn,you can look at the top card of your deck,if it is a normal spell card send it to the graveyard and you can activate its effect durring the main phase of your next turn.

this new version says activate the effect of the spell card so there is no cost as your not activating the spell so no need to discard or any need for certain conditions to be met.

not sure on metamorphasis.
 
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Metamorphosis, you need a target monster to perform the Special Summon. That would make Diamond Dude just a "little" too much if he can summon a Fusion with no regard to level.
 
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Fury said:
Yes, but that's not what the card text says. It's what the rulings say.Again. That's not what the card text says. It's what the rulings say.
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It's also what the Game Mechanics of Counter Traps state, so how are you arguing this? You cannot activate a Counter Trap 3 or 4 cards removed from the effect it is attempting to counter, unless it is a exception, like Negate Attack.

This means you have

Activate: Effect --> Counter

Resolve: Counter --> Effect

In the case of Barrel Behind the Door, it doesnt matter how you personally interpret the card text, it is not Hallowed Life Barrier or Pikeru's Circle of Enchantment, and cannot be anywhere else along the chain, other than DIRECTLY following the effect it is attempting to prevent or "reflect".
 
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Fury said:
In the anime Diamond Dude activated the Spell Card. Aster had to pay the cost, e.g. double discard for Magical Stone Excavation.

masterwoo0 that's not the point. I never said you dont have to chain it to the effect. To what kind of effects you chain it to is what makes its text inaccurate. Read the #19 post on this page.
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We already know that BBtD cannot chain to Continuous Effects, so most Effect Activations of a Spell or Trap Card are going to be from a Continuous Effect (if it remains on the field past resolution), which means that BBtD is useless against that. This is not in the Card Text either. But it is also a Basic Game Mechanic.

You listed Effect Activation of Spell and Trap's. Off-hand, I can't think of a Normal Spell or Trap that has a effect that you can "activate" after the card has resolved on the field, so you need to redefine your list in Post #19 in relation to Spell Speed 3 Counters.

Just to make something clear or "clearer"... Rulings are not provided to "teach" people how to play. They are provided to influence correct play of a card as well as the effect of the card when applicable. You have to already have a basic knowledge of Game Mechanics to help you understand some, if not all, Yugioh TCG Card Effects, to include Monster, Spell, and Trap's.

Examples of cards that needed "help" in rewording their effect or use were

Ultimate Offering
Skill Drain
Fushioh Richie
Chaos Sorcerer
Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys

Most of the above mentioned cards could ONLY be played correctly if you knew the complete Ruling or Card Effect Errata, as several have gone years before being changed to reflect what they actually did, versus what the card text stated.

Of course it would be simple if the text told you everything you needed to know in a couple of sentences, but that really isnt practical for all cards, and that is where Rulings and Judges come in to play. We can look at Skill Drain alone, and see that there is NO WAY they could list everything it can and can't do, even in a few sentences, and even if they could find a way, someone would misinterpret one key word, and all is lost.

Barrel Behind the Door may not be worded how you personally like it, but it works for nearly everyone else.
 
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Wave-Motion Cannon
Card Trader
Weapon Change
Senet Switch
Call of the Mummy
Frontline Base
Card Shuffle
Mass Driver
- have ignition-like effects -> you activate the effect of the spell (and can chain to it)

Level Limit - Area B -> this should be Stumbling
Card of Safe Return
Black Pendant
- have trigger-like effects -> they activate their effect (and you can chain to it)

EDIT: added more to the first list
 
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Fury said:
Wave-Motion Cannon
Card Trader
Weapon Change
Senet Switch
- have ignition-like effects -> you activate the effect of the spell (and can chain to it)

Level Limit - Area B
Card of Safe Return
Black Pendant
- have trigger-like effects -> they activate their effect (and you can chain to it)

EDIT: added more to the first list
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Maybe you didnt read my post. I stated that you cannot chain Barrel Behind the Door to a Continuous Effect. Wave-Motion Cannon is a Continuous Effect, and you can ONLY activate Barrel Behind the Door in a chain to a effect that will do damage at resolution, not 20 turns later.

This is a Game Mechanics issue, and not a Card Text one. You are mixing the problem with improper understanding of HOW to use Barrel Behind the Door, versus what the card says.

By the way, Level Limit - Area B is a Continuous Effect. There is no "trigger" when a monster LV4 or above is summoned. If you activate a card effect, like "Tragedy", you are responding to the change of Battle Position, and NOT LLAB.
 
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That's the point. It's NOT a continuous effect. (Else you couldnt chain to it.)

You cant chain Barrel because of the ruling, but can chain with everything else. Like Ring of Destruction of Hallowed Life Barrier.

You can chain to all of these effects (activation of the effect of a spell card) with enything you want except Barrel or Magic Drain/Jammer.

But Magic Drain and Jammer negate card activations.
Barrel negates effect activations - per the text! (This is why it's wrong - in truth it negates card activations.)

EDIT: Yup, I wanted to say Stumbling! But the rest should be OK.
 
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Fury said:
That's the point. It's NOT a continuous effect. (Else you couldnt chain to it.)

You cant chain Barrel because of the ruling, but can chain with everything else. Like Ring of Destruction of Hallowed Life Barrier.
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Who said you can't chain to Wave-Motion Cannon? You can't chain to reflect the damage for the reason I stated. Do you intend to leave Barrel Behind the Door on the field for 20 turns until your opponent sends it to the Graveyard?? When Barrel resolves, Wave-Motion Cannon hasn't because the first turn it is activated it has no value, so Barrel would go to the Graveyard without doing anything, even if you could use it.

So, since Barrel can ONLY be activated in a chain to the card it wants to affect, which means immediately in a chain to the Cards Activation (again, we are talking about Normal Spell and Traps), when the effect resolves, Barrel will reflect it.

You can certainly chain to the Damage to reduce it, as the sending of WMC is still a chainable event. It's just like when a monster is attacked and you enter the Damage Step. It's too late to activate Magic Cylinder, but you can still activate Shrink or Rush Recklessly. It's timing of responses, nothing more.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Who said you can't chain to Wave-Motion Cannon?
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You. You said it's a continuous effect. But it was probably just a poor choice of words. Lets forget that.
masterwoo0 said:
which means immediately in a chain to the Cards Activation
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This is not what the card text says. This is what the rulings say.

(The card text of Barrel has no mention of normal spells of traps.)

You talk about rulings. I say the rulings are fine. The card text is wrong.

EDIT: I got a bus to catch but I'll be back in an hour or so.
 
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Fury said:
You. You said it's a continuous effect. But it was probably just a poor choice of words. Lets forget that.This is not what the card text says. This is what the rulings say.

(The card text of Barrel has no mention of normal spells of traps.)
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Maybe I should have said Continuous Spell, rather than effect (I was viewing it as Both Continuous, as well as the Effect that you could not use it against).

Anyway, Wave-Motion Cannon stays on the field as a Continuous Spell Card, counting each Standby Phase. Since I really dont think it will make any difference to you whether I say Continuous Effect or Continuous Spell, I'll just say "Continuous" from this point on.

Since WMC is Continuous, you cannot chain a effect like BBtD to reflect the damage, since you can ONLY chain to WMC's activation when it is intially played to the Field. When it is sent to the Graveyard, that is a Ignition Effect being activated, which means that you can again, chain to that, but not with a Counter Trap because the card has already been activated for "x" number of turns, and again, you cannot chain to a Continuous Card.
 
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Continuous Spell and continuous effect are two totally different official Yugioh terms, and I'm sure you know the difference, so please use the _approprite one.

I'm not disputing the rulings, but the card text. My A-E list should have been enough but I'll try a different listing this time.
_Barrel Behing the Door said:
You can only activate this card when an effect [...] is activated (except Battle Damage).
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This would mean you can chain this when:
- a monster's effect is activated
- an effect of a spell card is activated
- an effect of a trap card is activated

But in truth, the card is played differently. By the rules and meachincs you can chain this when:
- a monster's effect is activated
- a spell card is activated
- a trap card is activated

The bold parts are the official terms. You should know that card activation and effect activation are totally different things. So the text is wrong.
 
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Maybe I'm missing something here...
Barrel Behind the Door said:
You cannot activate "Barrel Behind the Door" against a Continuous Spell or Trap Card, an Equip Spell Card, or a Field Spell Card. So you cannot activate it against "Magical Thorn", "Dark Snake Syndrome", "Wave-Motion Cannon", or "Black Pendant".

You cannot activate "Barrel Behind the Door" against a Continuous Effect Monster like "Gravekeeper's Vassal" or "Fire Princess" (even if an effect like "Gift of the Mystical Elf" is activated while "Fire Princess" is on the field).
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And we all know that Counter Traps can only negate the effect if it's the adjacent link in the chain.
Barrel Behind the Door said:
Remember that the effects that Counter-Traps are chained to must immediately precede them in the chain. So if you activate "Ring of Destruction", and intend to chain "Barrel Behind the Door" to it, if your opponent chains something in-between (even an unrelated effect like "Jar of Greed"), then you cannot chain "Barrel Behind the Door" because "Ring of Destruction" is no longer the preceding step in the chain.
Click to expand...
 
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