Well with how odd the official Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG site is I have no idea. The GX page is weird because if you Reload it enough times it will show the DPK-ENSE card Hero Spirit for Jaden. I assume this month, like no later than the 15th when these Duelist Pack SP are going to come out.
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Duelist Pack Special Edition Promos Revealed
- Thread starter Tiso
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magnumcyclonex
Virus!
It's not that competitive players don't give these cards a chance. Most of them have already thought about the pros and cons of cards as soon as a spoiler is released, as well as the reality of the metagame.Tiso said:Yes, spoken from a Cookie Cutter point of competitive view. Never mind there is these cards you could use to activate Treasure Map yourself: Compulsory Evacuation Device, Byser Shock, Giant Trunade, Dark Scorpion - Chick the Yellow, Tornado Bird, and I am sure there is one or two I forgot from the list.
Then there iare cards that your opponent can use against you: Lady Ninja Yae and Spiritualism for example. Any Deck can be competitive, too bad people cannot grasp to think past the CC mentality and actually give cards a chance.
Tiso said:Well with how odd the official Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG site is I have no idea. The GX page is weird because if you Reload it enough times it will show the DPK-ENSE card Hero Spirit for Jaden. I assume this month, like no later than the 15th when these Duelist Pack SP are going to come out.
-- The official release date is this coming Wednesday (3/8)
-- The packaging is 3x packs of DP1, 3x packs of DP2, and one of the three promos. I *think* MSRP is $9.99, but don't quote me on that.
magnumcyclonex said:It's not that competitive players don't give these cards a chance. Most of them have already thought about the pros and cons of cards as soon as a spoiler is released, as well as the reality of the metagame.
I can see Treasure Map working in a Bazoo OTK/Ben Kei deck MAYBE seeing how those decks like trunade. CEDevice would not work here, unless maybe you magical hat-ed it out which I don't know how that works out.
Well you just Magical Hat it and then Compulsory Evac it. If that works then yeah, but that is the one why the metagame is the way it is. No one bothers to try out new Decks and venture away from CC. A card is not CC enough so it automatically sucks. Stuff like that really turns me off to playing the game in the first place.
Tiso said:Well you just Magical Hat it and then Compulsory Evac it. If that works then yeah, but that is the one why the metagame is the way it is. No one bothers to try out new Decks and venture away from CC. A card is not CC enough so it automatically sucks. Stuff like that really turns me off to playing the game in the first place.
No no, doesn't Magical Hats treat them as monsters or am I remember the text wrong?
krazykidpsx
New Member
yes but with all in tent in purposes it may work considering cards like Dark Coffin and that one Statue Trap card that when blows up you get a token.
so it may work.
also, the metagame is runned by Metagame. I bet you anything if they say its good enough you will see it in decks.
look at promos like Widespread Ruin. What was the deal with that? Widespread Ruin was out ages ago and it didnt see play so why now? and please dont give the responce becuase it is godly, becuase it oviously not.
so it may work.
also, the metagame is runned by Metagame. I bet you anything if they say its good enough you will see it in decks.
look at promos like Widespread Ruin. What was the deal with that? Widespread Ruin was out ages ago and it didnt see play so why now? and please dont give the responce becuase it is godly, becuase it oviously not.
krazykidpsx said:yes but with all in tent in purposes it may work considering cards like Dark Coffin and that one Statue Trap card that when blows up you get a token.
so it may work.
also, the metagame is runned by Metagame. I bet you anything if they say its good enough you will see it in decks.
look at promos like Widespread Ruin. What was the deal with that? Widespread Ruin was out ages ago and it didnt see play so why now? and please dont give the responce becuase it is godly, becuase it oviously not.
Cause theres a lack of effective alternatives, its like the spike in BTH during chaos and then the spike in Sak Armors in post oct. Deck space/choice changes like you said, but this card needs to be bounced which makes it much different as most people like destroy over other effects, Magic Cylinder is an example of this. You could try this as a sideboard card in decks that get trunaded sided against, *cough* burn/stall/water limits *cough*, but don't expect too much.
The reason cards like Widespread Ruin got bumped up to being CC is because duelists are sheep. They go to metagame, leave their brains in the cookie jar, and swallow any and everything the majority tells them to use. Widespread Ruin was a $2-$3 card tops on eBay months ago. It goes for over $25-$30. People like me had to stop using Widespread Ruin because it became CC and I was using that card way before any noticed it was actually good. We will never have Yu-Gi-Oh! like the show where each person has a different Deck than the rest because most are intent on just dueling to win (because winning is fun and losing is not fun and you can only win by being a CC). Nevermind you could win if you actually stuck with the theme instead of figuring ways to fit enough CC cards in a Deck to make some sort of theme.
If I was going to use Treasure Map, it be in my Guardian Deck right now that I am using if I could find a way to fit 2 of them in without destroying the flow of that Deck. I would use it in a Chazz Princeten Deck or a Heavy Slump type of Deck. How many cards do you think you will get your opponent to have in their hand when you use Giant Trunade? Then using that Sasuke Samurai #3 that allows your oppone to draw until their hand is 7. The second they draw that 8th card, game over man, game over.
Is it not that there is not enough effective alternatives, it is the fact that people try to fit as many CC cards in their Decks that any theme that could be made cannot. Why would I need to put Heavy Storm in my Elemental Hero Deck when I got Cyclone Boomerang and soon to be R - Right Justice? Why do I need to use Smashing Ground over Fissure? There are cards out there to use as alternatives, just nobody bothers to care and give them a chance. Hero Barrier must stink, and yet it has chainability but that will never go further than that since people want monsters to die from a Sakuretsu Armor. The second we get Cyber Phoenix Widespread Ruin is going to be more in demand.
If I was going to use Treasure Map, it be in my Guardian Deck right now that I am using if I could find a way to fit 2 of them in without destroying the flow of that Deck. I would use it in a Chazz Princeten Deck or a Heavy Slump type of Deck. How many cards do you think you will get your opponent to have in their hand when you use Giant Trunade? Then using that Sasuke Samurai #3 that allows your oppone to draw until their hand is 7. The second they draw that 8th card, game over man, game over.
Judicator said:Cause theres a lack of effective alternatives, its like the spike in BTH during chaos and then the spike in Sak Armors in post oct. Deck space/choice changes like you said, but this card needs to be bounced which makes it much different as most people like destroy over other effects, Magic Cylinder is an example of this. You could try this as a sideboard card in decks that get trunaded sided against, *cough* burn/stall/water limits *cough*, but don't expect too much.
Is it not that there is not enough effective alternatives, it is the fact that people try to fit as many CC cards in their Decks that any theme that could be made cannot. Why would I need to put Heavy Storm in my Elemental Hero Deck when I got Cyclone Boomerang and soon to be R - Right Justice? Why do I need to use Smashing Ground over Fissure? There are cards out there to use as alternatives, just nobody bothers to care and give them a chance. Hero Barrier must stink, and yet it has chainability but that will never go further than that since people want monsters to die from a Sakuretsu Armor. The second we get Cyber Phoenix Widespread Ruin is going to be more in demand.
TsunamiArmy
New Member
Since im more of a collector than a player, i just want these cards for my collection. However, as a player, i'd like these cards just to see how they play. Blockman would definately see play time in my rock deck, if i could keep alive long enough (Heart of Clear Water ??).
tiso reminded me that CC isn't the only way to go when you design and build decks. for every cc card played, there is another forgotten about card that has a similar effect but just doesnt see play.
to make cards like Treasure Map and Hero Spirit and Blockman work in a deck, you have to be willing to think outside the box and not follow the crowd. innovation > imitation
deck types like soul control and mill only came about because people decide to think laterally.
tiso reminded me that CC isn't the only way to go when you design and build decks. for every cc card played, there is another forgotten about card that has a similar effect but just doesnt see play.
to make cards like Treasure Map and Hero Spirit and Blockman work in a deck, you have to be willing to think outside the box and not follow the crowd. innovation > imitation
deck types like soul control and mill only came about because people decide to think laterally.
english chef
Truly English
Treasure Map:
Exodia bounce deck anyone?
Anyhow, Giant Trunade does see quite an amount of play in my area, but then most of use tend to run 'different' decks than CC.
Exodia bounce deck anyone?
Anyhow, Giant Trunade does see quite an amount of play in my area, but then most of use tend to run 'different' decks than CC.
Blackscorp
Poison?... Loaded!!
I'm one of those few that believe taht every card is good... If used in the right way and deck.
I'm planing on using Treasure Map on my Dark World Deck, I can abuse de Draw/Discard given by this card.
I'm planing on using Treasure Map on my Dark World Deck, I can abuse de Draw/Discard given by this card.
Wow you take a weekend off and look at all the activity. Let me make sure anyone reading this thread doesn't come away with some very bad misconceptions. Please notice that Treasure Map must be chained to the effect that would return it which means. No Spiritualism. No Magical Hats/Compulsory Evacuation Device (treated as monster card so how would you chain it?). Truly it isn't a bad card as many decks already run Giant Trunade and the discard can work nicely in a Dark World deck.
magnumcyclonex
Virus!
I am a little agitated by Tiso's comments which seem to be anti-CC. Don't get me wrong, I don't play with "CC" all the time. I'm all for "innovative" creations that can hold their own and do well, even if there are some "CC" cards in that deck.
If you are a good player, you should be able to put together a deck and play it correctly such that it can handle other decks it faces. Obviously, card choices matter. Why run Granmarg when you can run Mobius, which offers more options? Why run Giant Trunade + Treasure Map, when you could simply use Graceful Charity (assuming it will be unbanned in April)? Of course, the purpose of the deck matters. If you're running a Cyber Stein deck, GT and TM could be a viable option. Then again, you have to think about actual deck construction and the likelihood you'd draw them and the likelihood they can be dead cards for some duration of the duel.
Yes, some people are sheep. Just look at Bazoo and Return. It does well in an SJC and suddenly, many local duelists start building similar, if not the same decks. So these "sheep" have now started to play with another "CC" deck that's become well known via metagame.com. After a while, people will start to know that deck's strengths and weaknesses, and will use their own ideas to tweak it to their playstyle.
Then, because they're so used to playing with that deck, they become good at it, and use nothing else. Maybe that is what you are trying to get at. And for some people, that is true. They only use "CC". Why? Because they want to win, and it is a no brainer that good cards are better than sub par cards.
The reality of the current and possible future metagame, as well as the reality of effective deck construction determines the cut in which cards competitive players choose. You can go ahead and create "innovative" deck ideas on DeckStudio and simulate opening hands and the course of the duel, or you can actually build your "innovative" deck idea and test it against your friends who use "innovative" and/or "CC" decks. Unless your deck is stable enough, it's not going to pull off any (game breaking) combos on a consistent basis.
If you are a good player, you should be able to put together a deck and play it correctly such that it can handle other decks it faces. Obviously, card choices matter. Why run Granmarg when you can run Mobius, which offers more options? Why run Giant Trunade + Treasure Map, when you could simply use Graceful Charity (assuming it will be unbanned in April)? Of course, the purpose of the deck matters. If you're running a Cyber Stein deck, GT and TM could be a viable option. Then again, you have to think about actual deck construction and the likelihood you'd draw them and the likelihood they can be dead cards for some duration of the duel.
Yes, some people are sheep. Just look at Bazoo and Return. It does well in an SJC and suddenly, many local duelists start building similar, if not the same decks. So these "sheep" have now started to play with another "CC" deck that's become well known via metagame.com. After a while, people will start to know that deck's strengths and weaknesses, and will use their own ideas to tweak it to their playstyle.
Then, because they're so used to playing with that deck, they become good at it, and use nothing else. Maybe that is what you are trying to get at. And for some people, that is true. They only use "CC". Why? Because they want to win, and it is a no brainer that good cards are better than sub par cards.
The reality of the current and possible future metagame, as well as the reality of effective deck construction determines the cut in which cards competitive players choose. You can go ahead and create "innovative" deck ideas on DeckStudio and simulate opening hands and the course of the duel, or you can actually build your "innovative" deck idea and test it against your friends who use "innovative" and/or "CC" decks. Unless your deck is stable enough, it's not going to pull off any (game breaking) combos on a consistent basis.
anthonyj said:Wow you take a weekend off and look at all the activity. Let me make sure anyone reading this thread doesn't come away with some very bad misconceptions. Please notice that Treasure Map must be chained to the effect that would return it which means. No Spiritualism. No Magical Hats/Compulsory Evacuation Device (treated as monster card so how would you chain it?). Truly it isn't a bad card as many decks already run Giant Trunade and the discard can work nicely in a Dark World deck.
Why would Spiritalism not work if your opponent used it? You are not negating the card or anything. I already found my ways to use the card to most efficient way. Either I am going to have a Desert Sunlight face-down and set my Tornado Bird, then activate Desert Sunlight to flip it over and return my 2 Treasure Maps on the field, this drawing 4 cards and discarding 2 or it will be through Giant Trunade and Byser Shock.
magnumcyclonex said:If you are a good player, you should be able to put together a deck and play it correctly such that it can handle other decks it faces. Obviously, card choices matter. Why run Granmarg when you can run Mobius, which offers more options? Why run Giant Trunade + Treasure Map, when you could simply use Graceful Charity (assuming it will be unbanned in April)? Of course, the purpose of the deck matters. If you're running a Cyber Stein deck, GT and TM could be a viable option. Then again, you have to think about actual deck construction and the likelihood you'd draw them and the likelihood they can be dead cards for some duration of the duel.
Yes, some people are sheep. Just look at Bazoo and Return. It does well in an SJC and suddenly, many local duelists start building similar, if not the same decks. So these "sheep" have now started to play with another "CC" deck that's become well known via metagame.com. After a while, people will start to know that deck's strengths and weaknesses, and will use their own ideas to tweak it to their playstyle.
It is not some people that are sheep, it is most people that are sheep. Until I see something non-CC winning tournies almost every Deck you see is the same. Then you said it yourself, why use this card if another card better is out? That is not the point. So what if there is a better card out? Chances are it is broken and ends up on the ban list. Why do you think Graceful Charity is even banned? People abused it with the dump part instead of just drawing 1 card because you gain no hand advantage from it. It is not the skill of the player in most cases. Some Decks will never beat a certain Deck. Some Decks will beat a certain Deck. Sometimes you will have a kick-butt Deck and still lose due to bad hands or bad draws. Sometimes your Deck is fantastic, but will still be outdueled. No Deck is perfect and expecting people to just change their Decks around just to be a certain Deck it cannot beat is silly. You cannot prepare for everything and you should not have to. Everyone and every Deck loses.
It is thinking like that really agitates me because we have a wealth of cards to use OCG and TCG and yet all everyone is intent on doing is making excuses as why a certain card is not playable. I have yet to see 1 person use The Cheerful Coffin in a Dark World Deck and yet you would expect them to when the theme is discard through effect. Does any of them even use Dark Deal? What do Dragon-Type Decks need with a Heavy Storm? They have their own Normal Spell Card that is a MST. Then they have A Wingbeat of Giant Dragon. If people actually stuck with theme and keep at it, eventually you will find what is missing.
Blackscorp
Poison?... Loaded!!
Tiso said:I have yet to see 1 person use The Cheerful Coffin in a Dark World Deck and yet you would expect them to when the theme is discard through effect. Does any of them even use Dark Deal? What do Dragon-Type Decks need with a Heavy Storm? They have their own Normal Spell Card that is a MST. Then they have A Wingbeat of Giant Dragon. If people actually stuck with theme and keep at it, eventually you will find what is missing.
(There's still hope in the world of yugi....)
I'm with Tiso in this one, many people just mark some cards as "Unplayable" without even trying the card or knowing WHY it was made, most of the time they are just repeating what others said.
I love making Theme decks, and some times they aren't that good, because lack of support, but most of the time they have made the trick for me forcing the opponent to side deck especially to counter my decks.
I'm known around here for using weird decks and cards, they work for me (most people can't use my decks) because I KNOW why I built it that way.
"C.C. Decks" are good, very good the problem came when people simple stop thinking and discovering the potential that certain cards have when used in the correct way. Many card wont work for them just because you can't put The Cheerful Coffin in a standard "C.C. Deck" and hope it will work, but that's no reason to said the cards is unplayable like many people said about Book of Taiyou.
P.S.
I use The Cheerful Coffin in me Dark world Deck and I use all the LOD dragons support carts as well.
Do not get me started on weird Decks. I think the last coolest weird Deck I had to go against was one abusing Blade Rabbit. I was laughing so hard because this little rabbit was smoking my kipper like it was nothing. Then I just had this insane duel on YVD the other night with a Alexis Rhodes duelist using her Deck. Never I would have used cards the way she did in that combination and this was basically a battle between Misawa and Alexis. Truly cool stuff when you think outside of the cookie-jar and give cards a chance. Incidently I am eating rasin cookie.
The stale state of gaming has obviously been a problem for quite some time. Though I am firmly against the lack of creativity this displays as well as the lack of enjoyment many frustrated players encounter I would like to point out something that I believe too often gets ignored in these complaints.
1) This is only a game. You have no control over what others use beyond the obvious changes that your own game winning deck will bring to your local and possibly national meta environment. If you hated BLS then you ran a deck designed to beat him. And if you were good at building decks then it worked. Obviously there were decks other than just BLS reliant decks or something anti-meta would have been winning right? This is the problem with a specific anti-deck. It gets killed by most other decks it runs up against. So you aren't running into each and every other player at events running the same deck or you'd just use a strict anti-cookie and wipe the floor with them. What you wind up with is a hybrid which attempts to counter the biggest threat (the cookie) while not leaving yourself wide open to other deck types.
2) Most players I know don't have access to each and every card in the game. Okay many players here do have much better collections and are able to play whatever deck they decide to build but many if not most players out on the street are doing a fair bit of trading to get the cards they need in order to run a competitive deck. Those trades often mean giving up other good playable cards to get what they feel will be a winning deck. Even with the reprints and more cards being more readily available this is still not a "cheap" game to build a full collection of and thus it really should be no surprise that many competitive decks we encounter are the same because they worked hard to build their cookie and the thought of having to trade away for something completely different can be intimidating.
3) Now Metagame does influence a great number of people when they highlight new cards. But I haven't seen many of the decks that have been highlighted on Metagame going anywhere seriously. People aren't retarded, they don't start running for a new deck just because Jae Kim says "Freed the Brave Wanderer is great", doesn't mean everybody will start using his suggested Freed deck. But anybody spotlighting a useful card and how you can use it against the common threats in the meta is likely to influence what we see in the coming weeks, whether that is Metagame, Pojo, or one of our own here if you can show why it is useful more people are likely to give it a try.
Yes, many people don't think through all the possible card combos when new sets come out (would you expect them to when even the game designer himself neglects to do so?) Many of us here do and it is easy to resent those that are suggestable and don't eat, drink and breathe the possibilities available. But that is a very elitist attitude we should try to avoid as it can easily be taken the wrong way and gives rise to fighting, flaming, and locked threads.
1) This is only a game. You have no control over what others use beyond the obvious changes that your own game winning deck will bring to your local and possibly national meta environment. If you hated BLS then you ran a deck designed to beat him. And if you were good at building decks then it worked. Obviously there were decks other than just BLS reliant decks or something anti-meta would have been winning right? This is the problem with a specific anti-deck. It gets killed by most other decks it runs up against. So you aren't running into each and every other player at events running the same deck or you'd just use a strict anti-cookie and wipe the floor with them. What you wind up with is a hybrid which attempts to counter the biggest threat (the cookie) while not leaving yourself wide open to other deck types.
2) Most players I know don't have access to each and every card in the game. Okay many players here do have much better collections and are able to play whatever deck they decide to build but many if not most players out on the street are doing a fair bit of trading to get the cards they need in order to run a competitive deck. Those trades often mean giving up other good playable cards to get what they feel will be a winning deck. Even with the reprints and more cards being more readily available this is still not a "cheap" game to build a full collection of and thus it really should be no surprise that many competitive decks we encounter are the same because they worked hard to build their cookie and the thought of having to trade away for something completely different can be intimidating.
3) Now Metagame does influence a great number of people when they highlight new cards. But I haven't seen many of the decks that have been highlighted on Metagame going anywhere seriously. People aren't retarded, they don't start running for a new deck just because Jae Kim says "Freed the Brave Wanderer is great", doesn't mean everybody will start using his suggested Freed deck. But anybody spotlighting a useful card and how you can use it against the common threats in the meta is likely to influence what we see in the coming weeks, whether that is Metagame, Pojo, or one of our own here if you can show why it is useful more people are likely to give it a try.
Yes, many people don't think through all the possible card combos when new sets come out (would you expect them to when even the game designer himself neglects to do so?) Many of us here do and it is easy to resent those that are suggestable and don't eat, drink and breathe the possibilities available. But that is a very elitist attitude we should try to avoid as it can easily be taken the wrong way and gives rise to fighting, flaming, and locked threads.
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