Elemental Hero Wildheart and Horus 8 questions

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Absird said:
1.Since he is not removed with Return from A Different Dimention can he attack when Threating Roar is played.

2.What about Absolute End and Astral Barrier or Toon Defense?

3.I know Waboku works but does Hallowed Life Barrier?

4.If the controller of Horus the black flame Dragon Lv. 8
activates Change of Heart and the opp. chains Dark Deal can Horus negate the new Change of Heart.
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!) Threatening Roar.... that is about Elemental Hero Wildheart?
No, he won't be affected by it I think. Must have a closer look at the rulings for it. But see point #2 under here.

2) Unaffected stays unaffected, because these cards try to affect the monsters.

3) Yes it does. It doesn't even attempt to affect Wildheart.

4) nope, since there already has been chained on. Out of time, it is.
 
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1.Since he is not removed with Return from A Different Dimention can he attack when Threatening Roar is played.
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This should is similar to monster unaffected by Spell Cards being able to attack under Toll, Level Limit - Area B or Swords of Revealing Light. It should still be able to attack.

2.What about Absolute End and Astral Barrier or Toon Defense?
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Same deal.
3.I know Waboku works but does Hallowed Life Barrier?
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In this case the trap is not trying to affect Wildheart. It affects you, so it works as normal

4.If the controller of Horus the black flame Dragon Lv. 8
activates Change of Heart and the opp. chains Dark Deal can Horus negate the new Change of Heart.
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Ruling 3 for Horus:

The ability of "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" to negate Spell Cards is a multi-trigger effect that must be chained to the activation of the Spell Card. You can activate this effect multiple times in the same chain to negate the activation and effect of several Spell Cards that are activated in the same chain.

You must chain to the Spell Cards activation, and Dark Deal doesn't "reactivate" the targeted Spell Card, it negates the intial effect and creates a new one upon resolution, it wouod be too late to negate Change of Heart.

 
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As for Threatening Roar and Wildheart, I would say no, Wildheart will not be able to attack. The reason for this is that Threatening Roar prevents the player involved from declaring an attack, this doesn't affect the monster at all.

I think the other ones were already covered. I'm just doubling up on Benjamin here.
 
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Dillie-O said:
As for Threatening Roar and Wildheart, I would say no, Wildheart will not be able to attack. The reason for this is that Threatening Roar prevents the player involved from declaring an attack, this doesn't affect the monster at all.

I think the other ones were already covered. I'm just doubling up on Benjamin here.
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OK np :) Thanks for the information. I already thought so myself, and you and Digital Jedi confirmed it.

EDIT: oh wait... what are you saying? You're saying Wildheart CAN'T attack, because Roar only wants to affect the player?
 
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Thats what Dillie-O is saying. I'm inclined to disagree with him, since we have been told in the past that cards like Toll and Level Limit - Area B SAY they only affect the player, but the monster can still attack under the restrictions. Becasue technically, what a monster can do is what a player does with it. Players can't attack. And a monster can't attack all on their own.
 
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True... however, I understand what Dillie-O means with it. If it has already a slight touche of affecting monsters, you can say: 'It fully affects the monsters'. However, in case of Roar, it prevents the opponent from attacking (AKA declaring attacks). And the most horrible of it is, that Konami/UDE even didn't give a darn ruling :(
:mad: This needs to be fixed by them. An idea for your collection Jedi?
 
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Well, let's take a peek at a few things here...

Level Limit - Area B
Continuous Spell
All face-up Level 4 or higher monsters on the field are in Defense Position while this card is active.

Notice this indicates that the monsters must remain in defense position. A monster would have to be in ATK position (minus that one guy who escapes my mind) in order for them to be a valid monster to attack. Since Horus LV6 is unaffected by spells, this is why it gets through.

Gravity Bind
Continuous Trap
All Level 4 or higher monsters on the field cannot attack.

Again, this trap card prevents monsters on the field from attacking. Since Wildheart is unaffected by traps Wildheart would still be a valid monster to ATK at this stage.

Threatening Roar
Normal Trap
Your opponent cannot declare an attack during this turn.

Now this trap goes up the chain one step further and prevents the player from even declaring an attack. This doesn't affect the monster at all.

Remeber, when you enter the Battle Phase, the player must declare the attack with an eligible monster to attack. The monsters just don't attack on their own. Otherwise Berserk Gorilla would come into question with Swords of Revealing Light and such, but this is not the case. If all you have are defense position monsters, you have no eligible monsters to attack, then you can't even declare an attack. LLAB, GBind make monsters inelibigle for an attack.

Notice a difference with a different staller...

Messenger of Peace
Continuous Spell
Neither player can declare attacks with face-up monsters with an ATK of 1500 or more. Pay 100 Life Points during each of your Standby Phases. If you do not, destroy this card.

This is another card that is preventing the player from declaring an attack with a monster that exceeds the 1500 ATK barrier. Notice the restriction is on the player and not the monster.

Which brings me back to Threatening Roar. Notice one ruling about this card:

You can activate "Threatening Roar" in response to an attack, but the attack has already been declared so it will resolve normally. After that, your opponent cannot attack for the rest of the turn.

Now in a battle situation with Gravity Bind, the attack is effectively negated at this point because the monster is no longer eligible to attack. But with Threatening Roar, there was nothing done to stop the monster from attacking, it was stopping the player from declaring any further attacks.

So that's where I'm coming from. There is a separation between the declaration of the attack (in which you need to have an eligible monster) and the monster actually attacking (where GBind and others revoke that eligibility)

Interestingly enough, I'm tempted to visit LLAB with Horus LV6 again. The emphasis is on the player, but I'm tempted to think that since the card also involves a monster in its text, LV 6 gets to sneak by.
 
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Misremebered some card text. But the ones that I was probably thinking of:

Toll
Each player must pay 500 Life Points to declare an attack.

Gravekeeper's Servant
Unless your opponent sends 1 card from the top of his/her Deck to the Graveyard, he/she cannot declare an attack.

The controller of a monster unaffected by Spell Cards does not have to pay for these effects, even though the cards specifically refer to a players ability to declare an attack.
 
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Well, that makes sense considering if you you Soul Exchange and you have Horus on the field you still can't attack since it prevents the battle step. Its interesting how different cards have things worded differently.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Thats what Dillie-O is saying. I'm inclined to disagree with him, since we have been told in the past that cards like Toll and Level Limit - Area B SAY they only affect the player, but the monster can still attack under the restrictions. Becasue technically, what a monster can do is what a player does with it. Players can't attack. And a monster can't attack all on their own.
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players can attack it's called punching the opponent.lol. anywho i have a wildheart question, in the case of Mirror Force would mirror activate to wildman's atk or would it not work.
 
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Followed by a DQ and some Community Serivice. :p

As far as Mirror Force goes, Wildheart doesn't stop you from activating traps. If he attacked you could activate it and all Attkack Position Monsters except Wildheart would be destroyed.
 
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i am cao pi said:
players can attack it's called punching the opponent.lol. anywho i have a wildheart question, in the case of Mirror Force would mirror activate to wildman's atk or would it not work.
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Just as Jedi says :) Here comes the ruling, from the rulings of Elemental Hero Wildheart:

#2 If you attack with "Elemental Hero Wildheart" and the opponent activates "Widespread Ruin", if "Elemental Hero Wildheart" is your monster with the highest ATK, no monster will be destroyed by the effect of "Widespread Ruin". If the opponent activates "Mirror Force", "Elemental Hero Wildheart" will not be destroyed, but all your other Attack Position monsters will be destroyed. If the opponent activates "Negate Attack", his attack will not be negated, and the Battle Phase will not end. If the opponent activates "Magic Cylinder", his attack will not be negated and no Effect Damage will be dealt.

Very clear, isn't it? :p
 
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good thing i found this thread.....

in the scenario that i wanted to summon a Elemental Hero Wildheart onto the field, and my opp. activates solemn judgement/horn of hevaen...does it get summoned or does not?

im inclined towards no...but u ppl are the most advanced players...can u clarify this up for me?
 
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