flipp effects

B

BURN

New Member
If a flipp effect monster is flipped face up with skill drain on the field it doesn't get it's effect. If you use book of moon on a flipp effect monster would the flipp effect monster get it's effect?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
JOls said:
Ack!

You've got a good point. It doesn't say "equip this face up card".

Would the chain be like this?
chain link 1: Flip effect to equip "this card" to a monster
chain link 2: Skill Drain
chain link 3: Book of Moon

And therefore resolve like this?
Book of Moon flips over the Brian Jacker
Skill Drain cannot negate effect because card is face down
"This card", a face down card, is now treated as an equip card and equipped to a monster as instructed by the flip.

Then I would ask, are the effects of controlling the monster and giving opponent additional life points considered part of the flip effect, or would they just be ignored since the card is now face down and now virtually worthless?
Click to expand...
Once Brain Jacker goes facedown it loses its effect. Face down monsters do not have effects, so you could not equip Brain Jacker while he is face down. The only reason you can equip a face down monster to Rel/TER in because it is being equipped by Rel/TER's effect, not it's own.

The difference between Brain Jacker and other Flip effect monsters is that Brain Jacker has to remain face up on the field during the resolution of its effect. Penguin Soldier (& others) do not, so once their effects begin a chain, they stay on the chain whether the card is on the field, or not, face up or not. They are "one off" effects. Brain Jacker is a continuous effect so it has to remain face up on the field during resolution in order for it to equip to the monster by its own effect. And if Brain Jacker has to be face up on the field at resolution for its effect to work, then Skill Drain would negate it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Where does it say it only works when face up?


In the rulings it says that the card can not be destroyed by battle and get its effect.
If when a card that is face down equiped to TER/Relinquish can be Knoblemand Extermanted then why can't Brain Jacker be equiped to a monster face down? The cards that are equiped to TER/Relinquish are face down monsters in the S/T zone.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
jdos said:
Once Brain Jacker goes facedown it loses its effect. Face down monsters do not have effects, so you could not equip Brain Jacker while he is face down. The only reason you can equip a face down monster to Rel/TER in because it is being equipped by Rel/TER's effect, not it's own.

The difference between Brain Jacker and other Flip effect monsters is that Brain Jacker has to remain face up on the field during the resolution of its effect. Penguin Soldier (& others) do not, so once their effects begin a chain, they stay on the chain whether the card is on the field, or not, face up or not. They are "one off" effects. Brain Jacker is a continuous effect so it has to remain face up on the field during resolution in order for it to equip to the monster by its own effect. And if Brain Jacker has to be face up on the field at resolution for its effect to work, then Skill Drain would negate it.
Click to expand...

I understand that. But I'm not so sure that the "flip effect" portion of Brain Jacker is continuous. If it were, wouldn't you be able to equip it to other monsters as well? It seems like the "flip effect" portion is a one-of. That's why I was asking if the other portion would be considered part of the flip effect, or part of a continuous effect. I know, confusing, but I can definitely see it from BURN's point of view. I know that UDE has considered effects to be broken into two, and this could certainly qualify as two separate effects.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
JOls said:
So, in essence are you saying that there are continuous flip effects, and one time flip effects?
Click to expand...

No.
Brain Jacker and Invader of the Throne need themselves to be face-up pn the field to resolve their effects properly, this is only because their effect specifically includes themselves.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
BURN said:
Where does it say it only works when face up?


In the rulings it says that the card can not be destroyed by battle and get its effect.
If when a card that is face down equiped to TER/Relinquish can be Knoblemand Extermanted then why can't Brain Jacker be equiped to a monster face down? The cards that are equiped to TER/Relinquish are face down monsters in the S/T zone.
Click to expand...
Monster cards equipped to Rel/TER are not equipped by their own effects. That's the difference. You're comparing apples to oranges. In order for Brain Jacker to be equipped to a monster by its own effect, it has to be face up...this is just a general mechanic of the game. If you turn it face down, it cannot equip to anything because it no longer has any continuous effect. It's the same thing as turning Breaker face down. If you turn Breaker face down he loses his counter. Why? Because he has to be face up to get the effect. That's simple game mechanics. You can't argue with that.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
No.
Brain Jacker and Invader of the Throne need themselves to be face-up pn the field to resolve their effects properly, this is only because their effect specifically includes themselves.
Click to expand...

That I could understand.

So if this were Man Eater Bug flipped face up, and then the effect is chained with book of moon, man eater bug's effect still goes into play because it does not specifically require itself to take effect, although it could end up targeting itself if it is the only monster on the board.

Is skill drain's continous effect inserted into a chain? Taking that chain I posted, was that right to say that it would be in the chain like that, even if it was already on the board? I understand that the flip effect resolution would fizzle, but for mechanical understanding -- would you say skill drain is the second link in the chain even though it is a continuous effect and already on the board face-up?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
No, "Skill Drain" does not go to chain, but they resolve between chains while the chain block is resolving.

EDIT: Continuous effects are like referees on the filed. They alway put their noses on everything that is happening on the game, field, graveyard, your hand, RFP, ....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The game mechanics says in order to be equiped to a monster an equiped spell card has to be face up. But the ruling for TER/Relinquish the card can be face down and still be equiped.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
BURN said:
The game mechanics says in order to be equiped to a monster an equiped spell card has to be face up. But the ruling for TER/Relinquish the card can be face down and still be equiped.
Click to expand...
You're comparing apples to oranges. The rulings for Relinquished/TER have no bearing on how a card equipped by it's own effect must behave. You keep citing that example, and it just does not relate. We're talking about something being equipped by its own effect...not the effect of another monster. Specific monster effects are allowed to break the rules...but in order to do so, they must explicitly state that they are doing that...Rel/TER does just that. Brain Jacker does not.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Brain Jacker is not a union monster which has to be face up in order use it's effect. Brain Jacker is a flipp effect monster which is just like any other flipp effect monsters on the field. So why is it you keep saying that it is different. When the ruling says that the card must remain on the field. Nothing about this card doesn't get it's effect if face down on the field but all other flipp effect monster do.

At what time does Brain Jacker go to the S/T card zone when he picks a monster or when his effect is activated.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
TER/Relinquish makes the monster (face up or face down) an equip card. It never flips it. That's why you can use Nobleman of Extermination on the card, because it is considered to be a face down equip card. The only reason other equip cards cannot be equipped to monsters while face down is because 1) you cannot activate an effect of a card that is flipped face down, and 2) the effect only applies when it is face up because of the text on the card. It is TER's effect, not the effect of the face down monster equipped to it, that makes the card an equip card. That's why monsters would no longer be equipped if TER is flipped face down. The effect gets lost.

Brain Jacker loses it effect because the card has to equip itself. When you flip it back over, the monster is no longer there to equip. So the flip effect goes into play, but it goes to grab the Brain Jacker to equip to a monster and there isn't a Brain Jacker on the field to equip it.

Think of the face-up/face-down arguments. You can save a card from Nobleman of Crossout by activating book of tayou. The monster is face up, and so when Nobleman of Crossout is there, his effect only enables him to destroy face-down cards and his effect fizzles.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
BURN said:
Brain Jacker is not a union monster which has to be face up in order use it's effect. Brain Jacker is a flipp effect monster which is just like any other flipp effect monsters on the field. So why is it you keep saying that it is different. When the ruling says that the card must remain on the field. Nothing about this card doesn't get it's effect if face down on the field but all other flipp effect monster do.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where you're going with the Union monster thing, but DaGuyWitBluGlasses pretty much summed it up. Brain Jacker & Invader of the Throne are different from other flip effect monsters because they are required to remain on the field in order for their effects to resolve, where other flips, like Penguin Soldier, Mask of Darkness, etc. do not. This is because they, themselves, are part of the resolution of the effect. Brain Jacker has the further restriction of having to be face up on the field because it turns itself into an equip. Equips cannot be equipped through their own effects while face down. It would be like trying to equip a face down Snatch Steal to your opponent's monster and then saying you don't have to give them the LP increase. Can't be done.

And before you start in with the Relinquished/TER example again, we've already established that that is an entirely different situation.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Another way to look at it: When you do a flip effect, consider the effect to be it's own entity. That's why flip effects resolve even after the card is destroyed in battle. Man Eater bug gets flipped, imagine this ominous set of ghostly like hands appear and await the target to be dictated. Man Eater bug gets crushed into smithereens but has not yet been buried in the graveyard. The hands are given the target by the voice of the "controller" and they go destroy that other monster.

Brain Jacker gets flipped, the ominous hands appear again. Brain Jacker then Disappears (either gets crushed to smithereens during a battle, or gets flipped back over). The hands receive their target. They go to grab Brain Jacker to equip him but...Brain Jacker isn't there anymore. So the ominous ghostly hands dissipate.

Dark Ruler destroys Man Eater bug. The hands appear and Dark ruler grins and slashes at the hands. They dissipate.

:)

I like trying to visualize how things would happen if you were actually there.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top