Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast

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Entropy said:
"¢ If you Set "Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast" without Tribute, it has ATK 1400 and DEF 1000 when flipped face-up.

Specifically referring to the "when flipped face-up" part:

Does this mean that, while face-down before being flipped, it will have its full 2800 ATK/2000 DEF?
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When you "set" without tribute, the text states that it was done with the monster being at half attack, "when summoned" or flipped face-up. Fusilier has no stats while face-down and it is only when it is flipped face-up that you count him at 1400.
 
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Entropy said:
"¢ If you Set "Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast" without Tribute, it has ATK 1400 and DEF 1000 when flipped face-up.

Specifically referring to the "when flipped face-up" part:

Does this mean that, while face-down before being flipped, it will have its full 2800 ATK/2000 DEF?
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A face down card has no ATK and DEF ;)

As soon as Fusilier is flipped face up by an attack, his ATK/DEF would be set by his effect, which would be 1400/1000 because you set him without a tribute.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
When you "set" without tribute, the text states that it was done with the monster being at half attack, "when summoned" or flipped face-up. Fusilier has no stats while face-down and it is only when it is flipped face-up that you count him at 1400.
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Actually, no, it doesn't say "when summoned". If it did, then an attack that flipped him face up, or the Book of Tayou would allow his ATK/DEF to be normal. Ruling #2: If you Set "Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast" without Tribute, it has ATK 1400 and DEF 1000 when flipped face-up. which means that it includes the flip during attack or Book of Tayou, not just the flip summon.
 
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JOls said:
Actually, no, it doesn't say "when summoned". If it did, then an attack that flipped him face up, or the Book of Tayou would allow his ATK/DEF to be normal. Ruling #2: If you Set "Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast" without Tribute, it has ATK 1400 and DEF 1000 when flipped face-up. which means that it includes the flip during attack or Book of Tayou, not just the flip summon.
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I just meant that when you summoned him without tribute, or flipped him face-up from a set without tribute.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
I just meant that when you summoned him without tribute, or flipped him face-up from a set without tribute.
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Mea Culpa, I didn't see the "or flipped face-up." in your original message or I wouldn't have said anything. Sorry.

Raige kick said:
How would "Deck devistation virus" affect Fusilier if it was Set using his effect?
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Troublemaker... :D

Tribute 1 DARK monster with an ATK of 2000 points or more on your side of the field. Check all monsters on your opponent's side of the field, your opponent's hand, and all cards he/she draws (until the end of your opponent's 3rd turn after this card's activation), and destroy all monsters with an ATK of 1500 or less.

Good question. Taken literally, the card does not get its ATK/DEF until it is flipped and technically it is not being flipped when checked by DDV. So if I were a judge, which I am not, I would say that DDV would not take out FD at that time. Flip summoning afterwards would leave him ok.

(edited opinion of flip summoning after)
 
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Ok. There are two issues here, which one is the one being asked about.

1. Using a set "Fusilier Dragon" (set by his effect) as the cost for "Deck Devastation Virus".
2. Whether or not a set "Fusilier Dragon" (set by his effect) would be a valid target for being destroyed by the effect of "Deck Devastation Virus".

Thanks.
 
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skey23 said:
Ok. There are two issues here, which one is the one being asked about.

1. Using a set "Fusilier Dragon" (set by his effect) as the cost for "Deck Devastation Virus".
2. Whether or not a set "Fusilier Dragon" (set by his effect) would be a valid target for being destroyed by the effect of "Deck Devastation Virus".

Thanks.
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Good catch.

I answered #2 to my opinion. for #1, for consistency, I would have to say that set by his effect, Fusilier could be used for the cost.
 
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Raigekick said:
I was asking for Fusilier being affected by DDV, not as a cost.

As stated in the FAQ, you may use Fusilier that is Set without tribute as a cost for DDV.
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Um..quote please. Where does it say you can use a set "Fusilier Dragon (by it's own effect) for the cost of "Deck Devastation Virus"?

It says you can use a "Fusilier Dragon" that was summoned by it's effect, then flipped face down by "Book of Moon". This is because being flipped face down 'resets' the effect, so he WOULD be back at 2800 ATK.
 
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Raigekick said:
I was asking for Fusilier being affected by DDV, not as a cost.

As stated in the FAQ, you may use Fusilier that is Set without tribute as a cost for DDV.
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If we're looking at the same ruling, what you saw is when Fusilier is flipped face down after being normal summoned without a tribute. But that has a different meaning, because Fusilier's effect is reset when it is flipped face down, thus why it would have the normal ATK/DEF.

What this really does boil down to is WHEN do you apply the ATK/DEF? Is it when the card is flipped, like indicated in the text, or was it really implied to be when the card was set on the field. I've noticed most of the rulings are based on very specific wording of the card text, so I believe it doesn't get the half ATK/DEF until it is actually flipped.
 
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skey23 said:
Ok. There are two issues here, which one is the one being asked about.

1. Using a set "Fusilier Dragon" (set by his effect) as the cost for "Deck Devastation Virus".
2. Whether or not a set "Fusilier Dragon" (set by his effect) would be a valid target for being destroyed by the effect of "Deck Devastation Virus".

Thanks.
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1.) Yes, you can use a face-down monster as a Tribute for DDV, just as you can for Metamorphosis.

2.) Yes, DDV checks the "Current" ATK for monsters on the field, and at that time it would 1400 ATK, once flipped and checked by DDV.
 
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novastar said:
1.) Yes, you can use a face-down monster as a Tribute for DDV, just as you can for Metamorphosis.

2.) Yes, DDV checks the "Current" ATK for monsters on the field, and at that time it would 1400 ATK, once flipped and checked by DDV.
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I'm just wondering how you can send Fusilier when Set using his effect as a cost for DDV? Does DDV check the stat when the monster sent as a cost reached the Graveyard, or does DDV check the card's stat, ignoring the active condition (Fusilier being 1400 ATK at this point)?
 
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Raigekick said:
I'm just wondering how you can send Fusilier when Set using his effect as a cost for DDV? Does DDV check the stat when the monster sent as a cost reached the Graveyard, or does DDV check the card's stat, ignoring the active condition (Fusilier being 1400 ATK at this point)?
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You can't after you simply Set it from hand, it would only be 1400 ATK.

However, you were to Normal Summon it and then set it using an effect like Book of Moon, it would be 2800 ATK.

You can then Tribute it for the cost of DDV.

Face-down's can be used, just like with Meta or Catapult Turtle.
 
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novastar said:
1.) Yes, you can use a face-down monster as a Tribute for DDV, just as you can for Metamorphosis.

2.) Yes, DDV checks the "Current" ATK for monsters on the field, and at that time it would 1400 ATK, once flipped and checked by DDV.
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1. Ok, so you're saying that a Set "Fusilier Dragon" (set by his own effect) will have an ATK of 2800 while face-down?

2. The ruling states you can 'check' face-down monsters, not flip them face up. So since "Fusilier" (set by his own effect) has not been flipped face-up, what would his ATK be?

P.S.. I think you missed the point of my two questions/issues. We're not questioning whether you can use face down cards, we're trying to figure out if "Fusilier" (set by his own effect) can be used.
 
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