Gearfried vs. Blast with Chain in Damage Step

Y

ygo doc

New Member
Thanks to mws16, Gearfried Deck's are becoming popular these days.

How do you rule?
Turn player special summons Cyber Dragon and then normal summons Cyber Phoenix. TP selects Cyber Dragon to attack opponent's face-up attack position Gearfried the Iron Knight. Battle Step - no chains. During Damage Step, the NTP activates Blast with Chain equipping it to his Gearfried. No further chains. There are no other cards on either player's Field.

How do you proceed with this scenario?

doc
 
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Maruno said:
Cyber Dragon attacks.
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Maruno said:
In damage step, Blast with Chain is activated, and equipped to Gearfried the Iron Knight, giving it +500 ATK.

Gearfried's effect activates, and destroys Blast with Chain. Gearfriend loses the +500 ATK bonus.

Apply Battle Damage: Gearfried is destroyed by battle, and Gearfried's controller loses 300 Life Points.

Then the effect of Blast with Chain activates, and destroys 1 card on the field.
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So, in this instance with Cyber Dragon and Cyber Phoenix on the field, Blast with a Chain activates and resolves without destroying a monster?
 
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Basically, the biggest debate about this question is this: "Is Gearfried still considered a Continuous Effect?" If it is, then the last post above me is correct. If Gearfried is changed to be considered a Trigger effect instead; then BwC won't be destroyed until after damage calculation is completed. This means that Gearfried would gain the +500 and destroy the Cyber Dragon; but then the destruction effect of BwC would try to resolve in the graveyard to destroy the opponent's Cyber Phoenix but Phoenix would negate it and the effect would fizzle, as most like to call it. At least, that is how I see it. If they change Gearfried to a Trigger effect; then the deck will become even stronger. :) Come on Konami; let's get an answer before SJC Seattle, please.
 
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Hey! It's the "Gearfried the Iron Knight"-guy himself! :D

Anyway, if Konami has ruled that Trap/Magic Cards can be destroyed by continuous effects during damage calculation, then my original scenario is, of course, incorrect.

I do seem to remember hearing about that at some point before this thread. I knew this was debated already. Oh well, at least I helped get the discussion started. ;)
 
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I like carlossilva's explanation of the Spirit Reaper vs. Rush Recklessly ruling. I hadn't heard that before about the monster destruction, but it makes sense to avoid replay rule issues.

However, even if Gearfried is ruled a trigger effect, does that mean he'll get the ATK increase and then we destroy Blast with Chain, or BwC still gets destroyed during Damage [Calculation Sub]Step? [Edited]

Simon, did you get any answers from UDE? I have asked, but have yet to receive any answers.

doc
 
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Gearfried would not destroy BWC until the end of the damage step.
And MWS16 stole the deck idea from another guy with out giving him any credit he is not "the gearfeid guy" he is the act like it was all my idea guy. He has not come up with an original idea that worked for years.
 
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ygo doc said:
I like carlossilva's explanation of the Spirit Reaper vs. Rush Recklessly ruling. I hadn't heard that before about the monster destruction, but it makes sense to avoid replay rule issues.

However, even if Gearfried is ruled a trigger effect, does that mean he'll get the ATK increase and then we destroy Blast with Chain, or BwC still gets destroyed during Damage Step?
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Well, this might clear it up, considering Gearfried the Swordmaster IS a trigger effect:

The effect of "Gearfried the Swordmaster" can activate even in the Damage Step. For example, if "Brain Jacker" is attacked by "Gearfried the Swordmaster", and "Waboku" was activated earlier in the turn, "Brain Jacker" will equip to "Gearfried the Swordmaster" and the effect will activate. In this case, the effect of "Gearfried the Swordmaster" will activate after the effect of "Brain Jacker" resolves, and the controller of "Brain Jacker" will select which monster to destroy.


The effect of "Gearfried the Swordmaster" is a Trigger Effect that can be chained to, starting a new chain after the current chain resolves. You can chain "Divine Wrath" to the activation of this effect.
 
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The Scientist said:
Gearfried would not destroy BWC until the end of the damage step.
And MWS16 stole the deck idea from another guy with out giving him any credit he is not "the gearfeid guy" he is the act like it was all my idea guy. He has not come up with an original idea that worked for years.
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"Gearfried Guy" as in "a person who notably used Gearfried in a recent event." No one is insinuating or presuming he created anything.

These kinds of comments/conflicts are common on other Yu-Gi-Oh! forums, but we will not allow any to be started here on CoG. Please keep this in mind for future posts. Thank you for your cooperation.
 
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Actually, if you read Stille's tournament report:


http://www.cogonline.net/showthread.php?p=152817#post152817


He does explain that the idea is not a completely original idea of his own, and that it was inspired by someone using basically the same combo. He just built a deck based around usage of the combo.

And a side note : Six Flags Fright Fest is a big ripoff. Too cold for roller coasters and water rides, not dark enough to be scary. I mean, you could have fun, but you are going to be freezing all day long. Speaking of, I have to run and get some cough syrup........
 
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slither said:
Well, this might clear it up, considering Gearfried the Swordmaster IS a trigger effect:

The effect of "Gearfried the Swordmaster" can activate even in the Damage Step. For example, if "Brain Jacker" is attacked by "Gearfried the Swordmaster", and "Waboku" was activated earlier in the turn, "Brain Jacker" will equip to "Gearfried the Swordmaster" and the effect will activate. In this case, the effect of "Gearfried the Swordmaster" will activate after the effect of "Brain Jacker" resolves, and the controller of "Brain Jacker" will select which monster to destroy.


The effect of "Gearfried the Swordmaster" is a Trigger Effect that can be chained to, starting a new chain after the current chain resolves. You can chain "Divine Wrath" to the activation of this effect.
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The original question was about Gearfried the Iron Knight, though. However, there may be something that can be extrapolated from here...
 
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Something can sorta be extrapolated except in their example, the damage calculation sub-step is kinda ignored here.

The debate has never been whether trigger effects can activate in the Damage Step. It's when exactly do they activate and in the earlier post, I did try to spell it out as far as what would activate and when since Damage Calculation really allows for 1 chain only and resolves out before new chains/effects can happen.
 
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Raijinili said:
If it's still of interest, the JERP says that Gearfried is a trigger effect... and Blast with Chain can't destroy anything if it's triggered in the Damage Step.
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I and most other L3 judges are aware of the JERP; even UDE officials are aware of the Japanese ruling; however, UDE officials have currently ruled Gearfried the Iron Knight as having a continuous effect. I have been told they are consulting Konami to confirm the type of effect Gearfried the Iron Knight has.

I suspect it will ultimately be ruled a trigger effect. Gearfried the Swordmaster has the same initial trigger text but different effect and it clearly is labeled as a trigger effect. There was also a ruling involving Butterfly Dagger - Elma that also supported GtIK being a trigger effect; however, that ruling was removed from the FAQ by UDE.

doc
 
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Jathro said:
The original question was about Gearfried the Iron Knight, though. However, there may be something that can be extrapolated from here...
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I was addressing Doc, on what would happen if Gearfried the Iron Knight was considered a trigger effect. I was reflecting it as the same situation as in Gearfried the Swordsmaster.
 
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Gearfried the Iron Knight
Text
When an Equip Card is equipped to this card, destroy the Equip Card.
Rulings
 [Re: Butterfly Dagger - Elma] While "Morale Boost" is active, if you equip "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" to "Gearfried the Iron Knight", 1) Increase your Life Points for "Morale Boost", 2) destroy "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" with "Gearfried the Iron Knight"'s effect, 3) inflict damage for "Morale Boost" when "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" is sent to the Graveyard, 4) the owner of "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" can return it to his/her hand. REFERENCE ID 1
 [Re: Fusion Sword Murasame Blade] If you equip this card to "Gearfried the Iron Knight" it is not destroyed. REFERENCE ID 2

Fusion Sword Murasame Blade
Text
You can only equip this card to a Warrior-Type monster. Increase the ATK of the equipped monster by 800 points. This card cannot be destroyed by effects that destroy Spell Cards.
Rulings
 If the opponent chains "Mystical Space Typhoon" to the activation of this card, this card is destroyed before its effect can be applied. REFERENCE ID 3

Gearfried the Swordmaster
Text
This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by the effect of "Release Restraint". When this card is equipped with an Equip Card, destroy 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. REFERENCE ID 4

Now for the FUN.


The text is so similar, they should be the same; a triggered effect, due to the WHEN part. An event that "triggers" another effect. Read Gierfried's text and REFERENCE ID 4 . You will see the similarities.

REFERENCE ID 1 This would support it as a triggered event. If "continuous", it would be destroyed instantly (continuous events do not use chain) so there would NOT be a gain in LP's.

REFERENCE ID 2 & REFERENCE ID 3

If "continuous, then:
Fusion Sword Murasame Blade is activated and targets Gearfried. Giearfried's effect, if continuous, would destroy it before it "resolves" ; such as with Mystical Space Typhoon! However, ruled differently. Maybe because of next item.


If "triggered", then:
  • Fusion Sword Murasame Blade is activated and targets Gearfried.
  • Gearfried effect ACTIVATES to destroy Fusion Sword Murasame Blade; HOWEVER, since a SP 1, it starts a new chain.
  • Fusion Sword Murasame Blade resolves and its effect is in place.
Chain 2
1. Gierfried's effect resolves, negated by Fusion Sword Murasame Blade

So the rulings do seem to make it a "trigger" effect.

HOWEVER, with Konami/UDE, looks CAN be deceiving!!
 
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Interesting but, even a continuous effect cannot interrupt the resolution of another effect. So Fusion Sword Murasame Blade would finish resolving (and just have is destruction prevention effect active already) before Gearfried's effect would activate. After all if your statements were true, then Book of Moon targeting Spirit Reaper would kill it, which it doesn't.
 
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densetsu_x said:
Interesting but, even a continuous effect cannot interrupt the resolution of another effect. So Fusion Sword Murasame Blade would finish resolving (and just have is destruction prevention effect active already) before Gearfried's effect would activate.
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Interesting enough, there are rulings that state otherwise:

If "Final Attack Orders" and "Berserk Gorilla" are both on the field, and the opponent targets "Berserk Gorilla" with "Ring of Destruction", and you chain "Zero Gravity", "Berserk Gorilla" is destroyed in the middle of the chain due to "Zero Gravity"'s effect, and "Ring of Destruction"'s effect disappears.
 
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Nice try slither, but if you'll re-read what densetsu_x stated, you'll see he said the resolution of an effect not chain. Which is true. As it stands right now, the only effects that have the ability to interrupt another effect are the Archfiends.
 
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skey23 said:
Nice try slither, but if you'll re-read what densetsu_x stated, you'll see he said the resolution of an effect not chain. Which is true. As it stands right now, the only effects that have the ability to interrupt another effect are the Archfiends.
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Ah yes, you are correct, well im going back to my cell block now @_@...


Aside from the Archfiends though there is another monster: Voltanis.
 
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