legendary fisherman rulings

R

ramoths_fury

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i regularly compete in tournaments here in vegas and i have recently consturcted a water deck. i am frequently told that there is a ruling regarding the legendary fisherman which states that if he and Umi or Legendary Ocean are on the feild together and he is the only monster on your side of the feild, that your opponent can attack your life points directly instead. Where does this come from? i have searched a number of yugioh sites and cannot find ANY rulings on fisherman at all. and Konami only has a text change on him. Can someone clarify this for me!?!?! i compete in advance fomat sanctioned tournaments and this is distressing b/c there is never an agreement even between judges.
 
Digital Jedi said:
Three Halves, huh?

Then Konami is never, ever wrong and 150% who dont undestand their rulings are either illogical, illiterate or ignorant? Well, at least you didn't just outright call us stupid.
lol, thats funny.

Realistically these are all continuous effects overlapping.

Since Konami has been so nice to us and provided u with no mechanics whatsoever to resolve these yourselves they predetermine the order for us.

That IS the answer.

..and anyone who "knows what they are talking about" knows that.
 
hmm

well after reading this and thinking about it the only question i can raise to this ordeal is why?

maybe if upperdeck/konami would explain why cards like kay est and fisherman can be attacked around when you have no other monsters on the field then we would all understand but i think like novastar said its because the wanted to and they want people to be angry with it

ill say one last thing though i would have used a fisherman deck had it not been for that ruling and im sure alot of people would as well

well theres my input enjoy
 
Digital Jedi said:
Three Halves, huh?

Then Konami is never, ever wrong and 150% of the people who dont undestand their rulings are either illogical, illiterate or ignorant? Well, at least you didn't just outright call us stupid.
Did I mention that in the fourth half, people are talking about the same three to five rulings? So there's also reiteration.
 
Hypocrites*

Well, that was just to shut you up, you know.

There's no precedence proving that BSG isn't a triggered effects, as that is an effect that happens during the resolution of another effect. And we all know continuous "starting" effects can't "start" during the resolution of another effect (Exodia, Spirit Reaper, DDV, DDVD, etc.) so it's called a Trigger instead. Just a different kind of trigger.
 
Sorry wrong "hypocrates"

And yea there is definite precedence that BSG is not a Triggered effect, the bottom line is that you don't know why it is, so you say "Konami said so"

Really, so a monster Tributed while Grave Protector is on the field is removed from play instead is not an effect "intrupting" an effect, or dare i say Chaos Command Magician...yea...

Simple, you don't know how replacement effects work so you say "Konami said so"

Period.
 
The way I suddenly saw it as while reading this thread is this way:

Solar Flare Dragon and Command Knight both say that they can't be attacked if there is another monster on the field. If that other monster is the same monster, then neither can be attacked and Life Points too cannot be attacked. This is because that when considering one of the two cards, the other monster on the field can potentially be an attack target. Therefore a monster must be attacked, since there's a monster on the field that can potentially be attacked, according to one of the cards.

But when you consider the other monster, you find that it too can't be attacked, and that the first monster you looked at is now a potential attack target (as it is now considered "just another monster"). So there's a potential attack target on the field, so you must attack a monster on the field.

So you must attack a monster, but you can't. There's no option of attacking Life Points directly instead. This is the lock for Solar Flare Dragon and Command Knight.


Marauding Captain says you can only attack him. Fair enough. But when there are two of him on the field, and you're considering one of them, the effect of the other states you must attack the other instead. So you can't attack the one you're considering. When you consider the other, the same thing happens. There's a monster on the field that is a legal attack target (indeed, it begs to be attacked, but that's beside the point), so you must attack a monster on the field. Attacking Life Points is, again, not an option.


The Legendery Fisherman cannot be an attack target whilst Umi is on the field. If he is the only monster on the side of the field, there are no legal attack targets on that side of the field, so Life Points must be targeted instead.


In conclusion, I say that Konami rulings are wrong. True, they worked fine enough before, but now they should be changed a bit. Instead of:
The attacking player chooses 1 of their monsters and designates 1 of the opponent's monster as a target. Play then proceeds immediately to the Damage Step, returning to the Battle Step if the attacking player wishes to attack again with another monster. If the opposing player has no monsters on the field, the selected monster's attack will inflict Direct Damage on the opposing player's Life Points (Direct Damage).
I suggest that the emboldened bit be replaced with something like:

"If the opposing player has no potential legal attack targets on the field, the selected monster's etc. etc. etc."

Until now the two phrases have meant the same thing. But with these locks, the phrases now have different meanings. According to one of the cards of the lock, you could attack the other monster (or itself for MC), but only the effect of the other card prevents that from happening. There is a monster that can potentially be targeted, but it turns out that it actually just can't.
 
novastar said:
Sorry wrong "hypocrates"

And yea there is definite precedence that BSG is not a Triggered effect, the bottom line is that you don't know why it is, so you say "Konami said so"

Really, so a monster Tributed while Grave Protector is on the field is removed from play instead is not an effect "intrupting" an effect, or dare i say Chaos Command Magician...yea...

Simple, you don't know how replacement effects work so you say "Konami said so"

Period.
Grave Protector doesn't START in the middle of another effect. It replaces a goal. Banisher of Light precedence.

Chaos Magician MAY be considered trigger. I dunno.
 
Chaos Command Magician is a Continuos Effect.

Negate the effect of a Monster Card that targets this 1 card.

Meaning the monster effect is negated that targets this 1 card when it resolves.
 
Maruno said:
The way I suddenly saw it as while reading this thread is this way . . . etc.
While I'm usually big on making seemingly nonsensicle rulings make sense, I'm gonna have to go with B.K.S.S on this one. It just doesn't make sense based on the card text. An errata is the only thing to give this ruling any logical credence.
 
Raijinili said:
*sigh*

You still aren't learning. Where is your proof?

Under your logic, Big Shield Gardna is also Continuous, as are the Archfiend Chess pieces. Gah.

Big Shield Gardna negates the activation of a Spell card that target this 1 face-down monster. Trigger effect of course.

But for Archfiend Chess Pieces, you roll the die when the effect resolves when an effect targets Archfiends. It would the same way for Chaos Command Magician as it negates the effect of a monster that target this 1 monster when it resolves.

Difference here is that Archfiend Chess Pieces are trigger effects since it involves rolling a die to "try" to negate the effect. Chaos Command Magician is Continous as it negates effect when it resolves.
 
Datz what I think tho, i don't have anything official from Konami or whoever.

Where can I find dat proves Chaos Command Magician is a trigger? Cuz i can't possibly side with that.
 
Ok ...backup...lets see....

Official Rulebook 5.0 said:
IV. Trigger Effect
These are activated when you have fulfilled a specific requirement.

I hate to use it, believe me, but this is such a simple concept that it really doesn't need more. That seems like enough "backup" for me.

Also, just incase you think the interpretation on "activate" is being used loosely.

Official Rulebook 5.0 said:
II. Continuous Effect
As long as this Monster Card is face-up on the field,it's effect remains active.[...]

"Active" vs. "Activate" sounds like the right terminology to me.

All i'm saying is that to call the Archfiend negation effects Triggers you are breaking the normal rules of what a Trigger actually is. They "activate" and create Chain Links... very simple.
 
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