Machine Duplication and Proto-Cyber Dragon ?

S

SoilentG

CoG iTrader
From RONINâ„¢:

"¢ [Re: Proto-Cyber Dragon] You can use "Machine Duplication" and "Proto-Cyber Dragon" to Special Summon up to 2 "Cyber Dragons" from your Deck.

Also from RONINâ„¢:

Proto-Cyber Dragon
Effect Monster (Machine / LIGHT / 3 Stars / ATK 1100 / DEF 600)
This card's name is treated as "Cyber Dragon" while it is face-up on the field.

So, how is it that Proto-Cyber Dragon can be used with Machine Duplication since it's ATK is 1100?


 
Sort by date Sort by votes
All that's saying is that since Proto-Cyber Dragon name is considered as Cyber Dragon while on the field, that assuming it had 500 attack or less when you played Machine Duplication, that you could summon the normal Cyber Dragon instead of more Proto-Cyber Dragons.

It's not saying you can actually just play Proto-Cyber Dragon with Machine Duplication, it's just showing what would happen if the monster had an effect that gave it a different name.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Peps said:
All that's saying is that since Proto-Cyber Dragon name is considered as Cyber Dragon while on the field, that assuming it had 500 attack or less when you played Machine Duplication, that you could summon the normal Cyber Dragon instead of more Proto-Cyber Dragons.

It's not saying you can actually just play Proto-Cyber Dragon with Machine Duplication, it's just showing what would happen if the monster had an effect that gave it a different name.
Click to expand...

I think it should be worded that if Proto-Cyber Dragon's original ATK were modified to 500 or less. The way it's stated it looks like an exception whereby you can use a "virgin" Proto-Cyber Dragon with Machine Duplication.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Except Machine Duplication doesn't care at all for "Original ATK". It just looks at the Current ATK of a Machine. If it's 500 or less, you can "Dupe" it, which if you used Proto-Cyber Dragon, you would Special Summon up to 2 Cyber Dragons from your deck. The point of the ruling had nothing to do with the mechanic of getting a Machine to 500 or less but rather what to do in case of Duping a Machine whose name is changed.

If you have Harpie Lady 2 dropped below 500 and DNA Surgury changed to Machine, you could use Machine Duplication on her to bring out a Cyber Harpie Lady and Harpie Lady 3 if you wanted to. That was point of the ruling.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
only if you can get its atk down to 500 or less, tough since shrink puts it @ 550 - needs more help....expressroid however....

edit - oops - you wanted more protos...i gotta read more carefully....i dont think so in that case but....i seem to have lost all cognative ability of late....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I'd say yes there. Comparing with Umi/A Legendary Ocean and Warrior of Atlantis, Proto-Cyber Dragon would effectively have 2 names while on the field. You can pick either name, and Summon those monsters.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
No. As long as it is on the field, it's name is Cyber Dragon. Look at the reference to "Next to be Lost":
"¢ [Re: Next to be Lost] If you target "Proto-Cyber Dragon" on your side of the field for "Next to be Lost", you send a "Cyber Dragon" from your Deck to the Graveyard, not a "Proto-Cyber Dragon".

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
SoilentG said:
OK.

So, another question, can you also use Machine Duplication on Proto-Cyber Dragon and pull out two more copies of Proto-Cyber Dragon?
Click to expand...

No no no no no.

Why?

Cause what is the name of "Proto-Cyber Dragon" while it is face-up on the field?

"Cyber Dragon".

The only way your scenario would work is if "Skill Drain" is also on the field.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Well, isn't "A Legendary Ocean" treated as Umi at all times? Proto only says while Face-Up on the field. Ocean has it to where it interfers with your deckbuilding because you can only have three "Umi" and/or Oceans total in your deck, just like with "Harpie Lady". It's foolish to ever name "Harpie Lady #3" or "A Legendary Ocean" with "Mind Crush" =D. I think.

Anyway, I just saw your point. It is odd that he specifies "A Legendary Ocean", even though there is no such card. Hmm.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It's been explained that A Legendary Ocean technically has two names: "A Legendary Ocean" and "Umi".

Since Warrior of Atlantis is worded identically to Proto-Cyber Dragon (ignoring the on0field-only stipulation), it's logical to assume that, while on the field, Proto-Cyber Dragon also has two names: "Proto-Cyber Dragon" and "Cyber Dragon".
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
However, for some reason "Proto-Cyber Dragon" seems to only have one name while on the field. I'm checking into it.

It seems to be a BKSS. Just like with the Levia Dragon vs. Demise situation with identical wording and different words.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Proto-Cyber Dragon says on the card text that it's name is Cyber Dragon while on the field.

This card's name is treated as "Cyber Dragon" while it is face-up on the field.
Click to expand...
As for the likes of A Legendary Ocean, and the Harpie Ladies, they just say it straight off that their name is to be treated as something else.

This card's name is treated as "Umi".
Click to expand...
In this case, this would mean that nobody where A Legendary Ocean is, it will always be considered as "Umi".
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The simplest way to describe it is that "Warrior of Atlantis" is looking for 1 card only - "A Legenday Ocean". That is the only one it can pull. However, rather than get into a long effect on the card that tries to separate out how it can search for 1 version of Umi and not the other, the games designers just went with something short and simple. It can search out the card that contains the same text in the title as what was written on the effect of "Warrior of Atlantis".

Basically it's just looking for a specific version of Umi (A Legendary Ocean version).

Really you're making this way too complicated than it needs to be.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It makes sense that it can find a card with the name "A Legendary Ocean" sure, since it has two names. "Proto-Cyber Dragon" should be the same, and either name should be selectable.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Oceanus said:
It makes sense that it can find a card with the name "A Legendary Ocean" sure, since it has two names. "Proto-Cyber Dragon" should be the same, and either name should be selectable.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point....Warrior of Atlantis specifically states player can add a specific card to their hand....A Legendary Ocean. It doesn't state Umi or a card treated as Umi.

Proto-Cyber Dragon with Machine Duplication, on the other hand, searches for a card with the same name as the selected card on the field and that card is Cyber Dragon. It doesn't allow you to search for another Proto-Cyber because while it is face-up on the field, it is Cyber Dragon and no other card.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
HorusMaster said:
You're missing the point....Warrior of Atlantis specifically states player can add a specific card to their hand....A Legendary Ocean. It doesn't state Umi or a card treated as Umi.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the point is, A Legendary Ocean's effect makes the card's name "Umi". Therefore there is no such card as "A Legendary Ocean", because no card has that name. There is only Umi. And Warrior of Atlantis would search for a card that doesn't exist. We all know it does work, though, but why?

HorusMaster said:
Proto-Cyber Dragon with Machine Duplication, on the other hand, searches for a card with the same name as the selected card on the field and that card is Cyber Dragon. It doesn't allow you to search for another Proto-Cyber because while it is face-up on the field, it is Cyber Dragon and no other card.
Click to expand...
Once again, my question is why. Why doesn't it have 2 names? Why only the one? A Legendary Ocean must have 2 names for it to work with Warrior of Atlantis, and there's no difference at all in the card texts.

I understand your logic, but it just doesn't sound convincing. As soon as we get a BKSS, I'll accept it, but for the moment I'll argue that cards with identical wording should behave identically.

Additionally, Neo-Spacian Dark Panther doesn't have two names, but instead only has the name of the selected monster (seen in the ruling with Next to be Lost).

Then there's the ruling where Neo-Spacian Dark Panther targets a Proto-Cyber Dragon, and has only the one name: Cyber Dragon (when it could feasibly have 3).

Looks like A Legendary Ocean is the odd one out here, because the other rulings match up. Perhaps its text should be, "This card's name is also treated as "Umi".", thus making it the only card with 2 names and an oddball card.

But as I said, until we hear some kind of confirmation, I'm still arguing.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Warrior of Atlantis and A Legendary Ocean were addressed on the judges' list if it should help clear that part up...
http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/OP/COMMUNITY/forums/thread/737801.aspx

I suppose part of the difference is that Proto-Cyber Dragon being treated as Cyber Dragon is the card's effect as that occurs only while it's on the field, while A Legendary Ocean being treated as Umi is not so much an effect but more like an actual "rule" as it's always treated as Umi, including in deck building.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top