Magic Box

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hehe, I think you're talking about Mystic Box, and while we don't have the rulings yet, I'm going to wager and say that it will function lot like Creature Swap where if one of the targets are removed, then the entire effect fizzles.

Mataza would not be a legal target for the "swapping" portion of the effect, so if it is the only monster on your side of the field, you would not be able to activate the Box.

Similar to Creature Swap, Horus LV6 would cause the effect of Mystic Box to fizzle.

Hope this helps! Remember, this is all based on the assumption that both effects must resolve in the card text, so we may get rulings to the contrary down the road.
 
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Hi Dillie-O how can you remove a target of Creature Swap during resolution of said card? (you select cards for swapping at resolution, not activation of Creature Swap). I get what you mean, but just to clarify...there are no targets until resolution, only eligible targets ;)

How does this tally with the Two-Pronged Attack vs. Elemental Hero Wildheart ruling? The trap card resolves, but due to E-hero Wildhearts own effect cannot actually destroy him. The outcome (E-Hero W) being destroyed) is not successful, but it (the trap card) can resolve (and destroy the other monsters).

Similar scenario to Two-Pronged Attack and e-Hero Wildheart; if you selected your opponents Horus LV6 (unaffected by spell cards) we should see that Mystic Box does not destroy Horus, and control of your selected monster Shifts to your opponent.

However if you chose your own Horus for the effect of Mystic Box, do we follow the Creature Swap example, and the effect fizzles, and the opponents monster is not destroyed?

Now I've gone and confused myself :)

Any other ideas about why Two-Pronged Attack works and Mystic Box may not?
 
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if you select a monster unaffected by spells as a target of 'Mystic Box', the other part of the effect still resolves as normal (though you still can't select a monster whose control can't be switched).

P.S.: I thought that people would know that saying "Fizzle" is bad for your health by now.
 
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Cropz said:
if you select a monster unaffected by spells as a target of 'Mystic Box', the other part of the effect still resolves as normal (though you still can't select a monster whose control can't be switched).
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So if I stupidly select your Horus LV 6 you get my monster, and Horus lives. If I select my Horus, your monster dies, and I keep my Horus?

Cropz said:
P.S.: I thought that people would know that saying "Fizzle" is bad for your health by now.
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Would you prefer 'flop', or 'flump'? ;)

Taking that discussion as straight forward, how about if I select your monster (at activation) and chain IMT to remove my monster from the field?

All of this argument goes away if all of the text for Mystic Box is executed at resolution - as per Creature Swap. So if there is no monster on your side of the field at resolution of Mystic Box, then it fizzles (..er..flops?) - which is I guess what Dillie-O was referring to.
 
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So if I stupidly select your Horus LV 6 you get my monster, and Horus lives. If I select my Horus, your monster dies, and I keep my Horus?
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yep.

Would you prefer 'flop', or 'flump'?
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I would prefer "effect Disappears" please ;P
because, as you (should) know, "fizzle" is not a term.

Taking that discussion as straight forward, how about if I select your monster (at activation) and chain IMT to remove my monster from the field?
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in this case, as you stated, the effect Disappears if any of the two monsters is not on the field when 'Mystic Box' is trying to resolve.
 
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FelixChCh said:
So if I stupidly select your Horus LV 6 you get my monster, and Horus lives. If I select my Horus, your monster dies, and I keep my Horus?
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Cropz said:
yep.
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Woah! Wait a second here! Let's look at the text of "Mystic Box" shall we...
Select 1 monster on each side of the field.
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No issues here. You can select monsters that are unaffected by Spell Cards all day long.
Destroy the selected opponent's monster and Shift control of your selected monster to your opponent.
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Ok, here's where my beef comes in. This last sentence has an 'and' in it. That means both effects are bound to each other. The second effect cannot resolve if the first one doesn't, IMHO. So, I believe the answer(s) to FelixChCh's question would be...

If I select my opponent's "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" and one of my monsters, the effect will Disappear because "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" cannot be destroyed by the effect of "Mystic Box". And since my opponent's monster wasn't destroyed, then control of my monster will not switch to my opponent.

If I select my own "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" and one of my opponent's monsters, then their monster will be destroyed, but I will keep my "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" because he's not affected by "Mystic Box".

That seems kind of unfair don't you think?
 
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skey23 said:
Ok, here's where my beef comes in. This last sentence has an 'and' in it. That means both effects are bound to each other. The second effect cannot resolve if the first one doesn't, IMHO. So, I believe the answer(s) to FelixChCh's question would be...

If I select my opponent's "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" and one of my monsters, the effect will Disappear because "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" cannot be destroyed by the effect of "Mystic Box". And since my opponent's monster wasn't destroyed, then control of my monster will not switch to my opponent.

If I select my own "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" and one of my opponent's monsters, then their monster will be destroyed, but I will keep my "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" because he's not affected by "Mystic Box".

That seems kind of unfair don't you think?
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It is. Thank you Konami for your wise selection of language ;)
LOL. This time they at last made a text that is totally clear (oh well... at last compared to the most other cards who are like this)
 
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I don't really see what's so serious about this. Look at all card text and make the ruling.

Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 is unaffected by Spell Cards. He still can be a target of them, just not affected by them. Mystic Box targets him, but won't affect him. I don't see the what you guys don't get about it.

Cards that are unaffected by types of card effects still have to go through the resolution of the card that's attempting to affect them.

Mystic Box is attempting to affect Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 in any one situation that has been presented. Mystic Box will resolve as Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6's effect kicking in where it needs too.

It isn't unfair or anything. It's just giving new uses to the cards that weren't previously available to people. There's far more "unfair" rulings in this game as we all know.
 
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I think it's probably better to wait for an answer from the Judge's List, than to define a ruling on a card that has similar "precedence" in Creature Swap vs Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6.

Creature Swap tries to resolve as much as possible as well, and we already know that the end result is the effect Disappears, since no monster is swapped.

I'm leaning myself towards the controller of both Mystic Box and Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 should be able to activate it successfully, but the resolution is just a question mark for me.
 
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There isn't any question mark to me. Two-Pronged Attack selects Elemental Hero Wildheart. Elemental Hero Wildheart doesn't get destroyed because it's being affected by a trap card which can't happen.

Horus LV6 can't be affected by the effects of Spell cards. This means you resolve as much as possible of the effect. In any situation with Horus LV6 being switched or targetted for destruction, it won't be affected by Mystic Box. Then their monster is destroyed or they get your selected monster.

The resolution isn't that hard to understand IMO. This is more similar to the Two-Pronged Attack ruling with Wildheart than it is with how Creature Swap works.
 
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My two little cents:

Regardless of it being a effect which is mandatory, the effect will resolve as much as possible.

Different Dimension Gate: it will resolve as much as possible, if a monster like Horus gets selected only the other monster will be removed from play.

Two-Pronged Attack: it will resolve as much as possible, if Wildheart is selected, it won't be destroyed, but the other 2 mosnters will.

etc. etc. etc.
 
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Ok, lets look at this 'resolve as much as possible' thing..shall we..

"Creature Swap" - I pick "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" and you pick your monster. Do I get your monster? NO. Do you get my monster? NO. The effect Disappears because "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" is not affected by Spell Cards. So where does it try to resolve as much as possible? If it resolved as much as possible, then I would get your monster and you would get nothing from me.

How is that consistent with the 'resolve as much as possible' thing?
 
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Keep in mind that Mystic Box targets and Creature Swap doesn't. Creature Swap doesn't work with Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 because the card requires two monsters to be eligible for the "swapping" process.

Mystic Box targets two monsters. Horus LV6 can be targetted by just not affected. Mystic Box is doing two things when it resolves at the same time and is affecting two monsters at the same time with two different effects. One monster is being destroyed and the other is switching fields. One of those effects will be cancelled out by Horus LV6's effect. The other will not.

Keep in mind Creature Swap requires that both monsters be eligible for the entire resolution. This is because it doesn't target.

Naturally this is just more speculation that I'm spitting out at you guys anyway.
 
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slither said:
Sorry about that, I forgot about Creature Swap, i'll edit, my previous post, I was really hinting at Different Dimension Capsule.


<goes to wash his face>
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LOL. I hope you are asleep now ;) Ow well... you can't remember all those exceptions every time...

Tkwiget said:
Keep in mind that Mystic Box targets and Creature Swap doesn't. Creature Swap doesn't work with Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 because the card requires two monsters to be eligible for the "swapping" process.

Mystic Box targets two monsters. Horus LV6 can be targetted by just not affected. Mystic Box is doing two things when it resolves at the same time and is affecting two monsters at the same time with two different effects. One monster is being destroyed and the other is switching fields. One of those effects will be cancelled out by Horus LV6's effect. The other will not.

Keep in mind Creature Swap requires that both monsters be eligible for the entire resolution. This is because it doesn't target.

Naturally this is just more speculation that I'm spitting out at you guys anyway.
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Hey Jason, did Tkwiget just butt in?
BTW: Tkwiget... I agree with you.
 
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