Mask Of Restrict Vs Ancient Gear Castle/Factory

J

Jack Of All Decks

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Mask of Restrict
Continuous Trap
Neither player can Tribute any monster under any conditions.

Ancient Gear Castle
Continuous Spell
Increase the ATK of each face-up monster on the field that includes "Ancient Gear" in its card name by 300 points. Each time a monster(s) is Normal Summoned or Set, put 1 counter on this card. If you Tribute Summon a monster that includes "Ancient Gear" in its card name, you can substitute this card for a Tribute(s), if the number of counters is equal to or greater than the number of required Tribute(s).

Ancient Gear Factory
Normal Spell
Select 1 monster in your hand that includes "Ancient Gear" in its card name (show the monster to your opponent). Remove from play cards in your Graveyard that include "Ancient Gear" in their card name(s) whose total Levels are equal to double the selected card's. You don't have to Tribute when you Normal Summon the selected card this turn.
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I was thinking of this combo last night for a deck, but I was unsure if it would be permitted. If you have Mask of Restrict in play, can you still use the effects of Ancient Gear Castle and/or Ancient Gear Factory to bypass the tribute restriction. I'm not too sure about Ancient Gear Castle, but I feel Ancient Gear Factory will be able to help because it refers in the text that you can normal summon with tribute if you use the effect, any thoughts?
 
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No, Hamon will only be summoned when you send 3 face up Continuous Spell Cards. Not Equip, Normal, Quick-Play, or Field. Continuous Spell Cards. That's what the card is asking for and that is what you must send. It isn't being vague on what the card is asking.

This isn't like Uria, Lord of Searing Flames that says, "3 face-up Trap Cards" because first of all, this includes Equip Trap Cards and Continuous Trap Cards. A little different than what Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder says.

I'll assume you understand what I'm getting at. =)
 
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I know what you are "saying".

All Hamon needs, and I'm guessing you have the final ruling on Hamon, because I dont, is that you need to send 3 face-up Spell Cards that are continuously on the field.

You can't send Reload, Heavy Storm, Graceful Charity, or Swords of Revealing Light, because those cards are all Normal Spell Cards or Quick-Play.

For either of us to say one is more correct than the other is again, speculation. There are no published rulings for Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder or Uria, lord of searing flame concerining the type of card that can be included as "Continuous".

The problem is, I don't think Continuous Spell Card is meant to be one long word, but a comma doesnt work after Continuous to make the separation.

Also, this is the question that was asked by Skey22 to the Judge List


Can I use Equip Trap Cards like "Blast with Chain" and/or "Metalmorph" to send when Special Summoning "Uria, Lord of Searing Flames"?

I just want to make sure I'm limited to ONLY using Continuous Trap Cards for Special Summoning this monster.

Thanks.


--------------------------------------------

Answer:

You can send a face-up "Blast with Chain" and/or "Metalmorph" to the Graveyard for "Uria, Lord of Searing Flames."


They indeed make mention that you can use Equip Cards (Since I believe they have gone back to simply Equip Cards for Traps that equip). Uria and Hamon are for all intents and purpose summoned identically.

You cant say "Continuous", without saying Spell Cards.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
I know what you are "saying".

All Hamon needs, and I'm guessing you have the final ruling on Hamon, because I dont, is that you need to send 3 face-up Spell Cards that are continuously on the field.

You can't send Reload, Heavy Storm, Graceful Charity, or Swords of Revealing Light, because those cards are all Normal Spell Cards or Quick-Play.

For either of us to say one is more correct than the other is again, speculation. There are no published rulings for Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder or Uria, lord of searing flame concerining the type of card that can be included as "Continuous".

The problem is, I don't think Continuous Spell Card is meant to be one long word, but a comma doesnt work after Continuous to make the separation.
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The card says Continuous Spell cards, not continuous Spell cards, see the difference?

Continuous Spells = Continuous Spells
continuous Spells = spell cards that are continuously on the field, but without the Continuous icon...
 
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Uria, Lord of Searing Flames only requires face up Trap Cards. It even says that in the card text. Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder says it requires face up Continuous Spell Cards.

I don't consider Equip Spell Cards to be Continuous nor do I see Field being Continuous either. They are the type of Spell Card that they are. Equip and Field.

Uria is only specific on 3 face up traps. Hamon is specific with 3 face up Continuous Spell Cards. A little different. Rulings really aren't needed IMO. =/
 
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"Continuous" is the only type of card you can send to summon Hamon.

What type of continuous card must be sent, a Spell Card.

Send 3 face-up Continuous Spell Cards....


Does your opinion of Uria's summon also include cards like Waboku, Compulsory Evacuation Device, and Ring of Destruction as well?

I mean, it doesnt say Continuous anywhere on the card other than for the power boost, so I could theoretically activate 3 Waboku's and send them, correct?

Hamon says it because you CANNOT chain Normal Spell Cards to each other, and Quick-Play's arent continuous, so what are you left with?

So, with that said, how would you ever get three face-up Normal Spell Cards, and three face-up Quick-Plays to stay on the field long enough to use them?
 
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masterwoo0 said:
"Continuous" is the only type of card you can send to summon Hamon.

What type of continuous card must be sent, a Spell Card.

Send 3 face-up Continuous Spell Cards....


Does your opinion of Uria's summon also include cards like Waboku, Compulsory Evacuation Device, and Ring of Destruction as well?

I mean, it doesnt say Continuous anywhere on the card other than for the power boost, so I could theoretically activate 3 Waboku's and send them, correct?
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There's only two types of trap cards that ever will remain face up on the field by default. Equip and Continuous. Uria, Lord of Searing Flames can't send three Waboku because you can't chain Uria's summoning requirement to Waboku. It's a Spell Speed 1 effect.

Another thing is Trap Cards that remain face up on the field after activation can be sent for Uria's summoning cost. Uria is only asking for 3 face up Trap Cards. It isn't being specific at what "type" of trap cards.

Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder is specific at what it wants sent for the summoning cost. Continuous Spell Cards. That's what it's asking for and that's what you can only send. This isn't asking for cards like Swords of Revealing Light or Different Dimension Capsule that are continuous face up. It's asking for the type of Spell Card called, "Continuous Spell Card" and nothing else. You don't need a ruling to determine this. Hamon says it right on the card.
 
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Tkwiget said:
There's only two types of trap cards that ever will remain face up on the field by default. Equip and Continuous. Uria, Lord of Searing Flames can't send three Waboku because you can't chain Uria's summoning requirement to Waboku. It's a Spell Speed 1 effect.

Another thing is Trap Cards that remain face up on the field after activation can be sent for Uria's summoning cost. Uria is only asking for 3 face up Trap Cards. It isn't being specific at what "type" of trap cards.

Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder is specific at what it wants sent for the summoning cost. Continuous Spell Cards. That's what it's asking for and that's what you can only send. This isn't asking for cards like Swords of Revealing Light or Different Dimension Capsule that are continuous face up. It's asking for the type of Spell Card called, "Continuous Spell Card" and nothing else. You don't need a ruling to determine this. Hamon says it right on the card.
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Now, you have just admitted to the fact that an ambiguous text can only have one cunclusion, even though it says one thing, it clearly means another, to which I completely agree.

Hamon's text needs to say what Spell Cards are included because, unlike Trap Cards, there are a variety of cards that are placed by type, as you have already mentioned.

Hamon's text can only say "Continuous". If it simply said "Spell Cards", it would include ALL Spell Cards, but again, how do you get 3 Normal Spell Cards face-up together? You can't, so toss those out.

You CAN manage to get 3 Quick-Play's, so for the sake of argument, I'll leave those up.

You can have 3 Equip Spell Cards on the field. These cards have Continuous Effects.

You cant have 3 Field Spell Cards for the simple fact you only have one Zone. These cards have Continuous Effects.

You can have 3 Stumblings, 3 Messenger of Peace, 3 Spell Economics, etc... All of which are aptly listed under Continuous Spell Cards, and have Continuous Effects.


Now, A Spell Card that stays on the field until it is destroyed or returned to hand, or sent to the Graveyard is called what???
 
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Umm, I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.

Equip
Field
Normal
Continuous
Quick-Play

Those are all completely different types of Spell Cards. Just because Field and Equip are face up on the field doesn't make them Continuous Spell Cards. They're Equip and Field Spell Cards. Not Continuous Spell Cards. Their effects are continuous, yes. I'll agree to that. But their card Main Type is Spell and their sub-type is Equip or Field. So they don't have a Spell Card sub-type of Continuous. So they will never be subjected to the summoning cost of Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder.

Now, A Spell Card that stays on the field until it is destroyed or returned to hand, or sent to the Graveyard is called what???
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Not "is" but "are" and they would be called, "Equip", "Field", and "Continuous." Only one of them will be used for the summoning cost of Hamon.

The actual effects of cards and the functionality of them isn't what we should be looking at. The Spell Card sub-type is what we should be looking at here. Those would be Continuous.

Swords of Revealing Light and Different Dimension Capsule are Normal Spell Cards that remain face up after activation. If Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder only said, "3 face up Spell Cards" like Uria does for Traps, then I would agree that those two cards could be used for the summoning cost of Hamon. Since that isn't the case and it specifically is asking for the type of Spell Card to be used, then it drops out Equip, Field, Quick-Play, and Normal Spell Cards immediately.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Now, you have just admitted to the fact that an ambiguous text can only have one cunclusion, even though it says one thing, it clearly means another, to which I completely agree.

Hamon's text needs to say what Spell Cards are included because, unlike Trap Cards, there are a variety of cards that are placed by type, as you have already mentioned.

Hamon's text can only say "Continuous". If it simply said "Spell Cards", it would include ALL Spell Cards, but again, how do you get 3 Normal Spell Cards face-up together? You can't, so toss those out.
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Exactly how does Continuous Spell Card not cover being specific? Should they have written 3 Continuous Spell Cards (the ones with the infinity sign in the corner)?

You CAN manage to get 3 Quick-Play's, so for the sake of argument, I'll leave those up.
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This would only work if you could somehow chain Hamon's summon as a spell speed 2 which obviously we know can't be done.

You can have 3 Equip Spell Cards on the field. These cards have Continuous Effects.

You cant have 3 Field Spell Cards for the simple fact you only have one Zone. These cards have Continuous Effects.
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If that were the case they would have simply stated, 3 face-up spell cards.

Now, A Spell Card that stays on the field until it is destroyed or returned to hand, or sent to the Graveyard is called what???
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An Equip Spell Card, a Field Spell Card, or possibly a Normal Spell Card from Konami's funny "don't want to make it a Continuous Spell Card like Swords of Concealing Light" imagination.

None of this points to anything other than the clear fact that the card specifically says in capitalized form Continuous Spell Cards. That is an actual definition and as such unless errata'd it would not include other types of Spells which are continuous in nature.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Umm, I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.

Equip
Field
Normal
Continuous
Quick-Play

Those are all completely different types of Spell Cards. Just because Field and Equip are face up on the field doesn't make them Continuous Spell Cards. They're Equip and Field Spell Cards. Not Continuous Spell Cards. Their effects are continuous, yes. I'll agree to that. But their card Main Type is Spell and their sub-type is Equip or Field. So they don't have a Spell Card sub-type of Continuous. So they will never be subjected to the summoning cost of Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder.


Not "is" but "are" and they would be called, "Equip", "Field", and "Continuous." Only one of them will be used for the summoning cost of Hamon.

The actual effects of cards and the functionality of them isn't what we should be looking at. The Spell Card sub-type is what we should be looking at here. Those would be Continuous.

Swords of Revealing Light and Different Dimension Capsule are Normal Spell Cards that remain face up after activation. If Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder only said, "3 face up Spell Cards" like Uria does for Traps, then I would agree that those two cards could be used for the summoning cost of Hamon. Since that isn't the case and it specifically is asking for the type of Spell Card to be used, then it drops out Equip, Field, Quick-Play, and Normal Spell Cards immediately.
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Then again, by your definition, I can send 3 Trap Cards to the Graveyard because Uria isnt asking for anything but face-up Trap Cards.

You see how easy it is to insert what you think is correct, based upon the information given?

Hamon MUST be asking for face-up Continuous Spell Cards ONLY, based on card text.

Insert opinion: Only Continuous Spell Cards with Infinity Symbol can be sent.

Uria MUST be asking for face-up Trap Cards ONLY, based on card text.

Insert opinion: Any face-up Trap Card can be used.

I have already stated that I do not agree that you can use a Normal Trap Card, but if you base your opinion on card text alone, you really have to know why all other variables will not work.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Then again, by your definition, I can send 3 Trap Cards to the Graveyard because Uria isnt asking for anything but face-up Trap Cards.

You see how easy it is to insert what you think is correct, based upon the information given?

Hamon MUST be asking for face-up Continuous Spell Cards ONLY, based on card text.

Insert opinion: Only Continuous Spell Cards with Infinity Symbol can be sent.

Uria MUST be asking for face-up Trap Cards ONLY, based on card text.

Insert opinion: Any face-up Trap Card can be used.

I have already stated that I do not agree that you can use a Normal Trap Card, but if you base your opinion on card text alone, you really have to know why all other variables will not work.
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He isn't giving an opinion. The question on Uria was asked on the Judge's List because it only stated face-up Trap Cards. It was clarified that it was any face-up Trap. And since you can't chain a summon this only works with Traps that stay on the field.

The same could certainly be asked of Hamon if there is a question but the text as is is certainly very specific.
 
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A lot of this is for sake of debate. If you remember, I started the original Hamon discussion about sending Continuous Spell Cards, such as Chain Energy (which I dont think has been answered yet if it was sent to the list).

I know what a Continuous Spell Card is, and I know the difference between a card that stays on the field versus one.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
So, you guys are saying that I can't send a Normal Trap to the Graveyard for Uria??
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The only Normal Trap Cards you could send for "Uria" would be ones that become equip cards, or somehow stay on the field like "Swords of Revealing Light", but you already know this.

The point is, they were pretty darn specific in the texts of these monsters. One requires 3 face-up traps, it doesn't matter what kind of traps, just as long as they are face-up on the field. The other requires 3 Continuous Spell Cards. This narrows it down pretty well, I think. Now, as stated MANY times before, lol, if you open up the Rule Book and look for this type of Spell Card, there is only 1 listed. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't recall the term Continuous Spell Card being used to reference a Field Spell Card, or Equip Spell Card anywhere in the Rule Book, do you?


And yes, woo0, we know you know what you're talking about. I just hope you are arguing this point just because.
 
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I get up and this is argument I'm greeted with today? <wobbly from sleeping poorly>

I'll risk typing after sleeping poorly and hopefully I'll make sense.

There is no way Hamon isn't being specific with the term "Continuous Spell Cards" (hey! double negative!). If there is on thing Konami has been consistant with over th entire corse of this game, it's with capitalization. "Equip Card", Equip Spell Card", "Trap Card", "Quick-Play Spell Card", capitilization is always ysed when refering to a specific card type. Not so in the case of card effects.

Had Hamon demanded Spell Cards with Continuous Effects, they would not have capitilized the word "Continuous". Capitilizing Continuous indicates specificity.

Uria was vauge, she only indicated that they need to be face-up. No you cannot send a Normal Trap for Uria, as you would not be able to summon here in the middlle of chain, which is the only place a Normal Spell Card would ever be face-up.

Kiryu's ruling is unfortunate and probably outdated. Up until this last set, how many genuine Spell Cards could you offer as a tribute? Tribute has always been the mechanic of a Monste Card, so Mask of Restrict's text never really had to be that specific. Since it is, and since Kiryu is a Union Monster even when treated as an Equip Spell Card, one can only presume that it cannot prevent the tributing of genuine Spell Cards.
 
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Hopefully, if anyone really noticed, I never said Cards like "Snatch Steal" were Continuous Spell Cards. I never strayed from the fact that I ONLY called them "Continuous".

If you read any of my post, you should see that I am generally "careful" with what I write, and I truly hate to even write a word incorrectly, which is why I end up with a million edits after I post something.

Nowhere in the Definition of Equip Cards do they state that they are Continuous Spell Cards. Nowhere does it even state that the effect is continuous, but we know that the effect will continue "as long as" the requirements are met for it to exist.

That said, I merely attempted to get clarity on those 3 words, "Continuous Spell Card".

Obviously, Hamon could very well say,

"Send 3 face-up Equip Spell Cards from your side of the field to the Graveyard"

And there would be no question as to what cards are valid. What we have created here is a searchable thread where anyone can hit "Hamon", "Equip Spell Cards", and "Continuous", and find out that Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder cannot be Summoned with anything other than a Continuous Spell Card, indicated by the "Infinity Symbol".

I would love to be able to use a Malevolent Nuzzler or Megamorph to send. In my Hamon Deck, I do not carry any Field Spell Cards or Equip Spell Cards. Why? Because even though I am debating the fact that I think Continuous is ambiguous, I KNOW what a Continuous Spell Card is.

You guys will have to forgive me if it takes me awhile to stop being a teacher who likes to make people think of the answer while I create scenarios.
 
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Mind you that they did perform a Card Errata on Mask of Restrict. The ruling it has with Kiryu is incorrect. That's if they aren't meaning that Mask of Restrict prevents the action of Tributing Monster Cards. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter.

However, basing it off of Mask of Restrict's text, one can argue that it expands to just any action involving the Tributing of a Monster Card.

The Card Errata is a little vague on that. This requires a little investigating on what exact Mask of Restrict prevents the players from doing.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Mind you that they did perform a Card Errata on Mask of Restrict. The ruling it has with Kiryu is incorrect. That's if they aren't meaning that Mask of Restrict prevents the action of Tributing Monster Cards. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter.

However, basing it off of Mask of Restrict's text, one can argue that it expands to just any action involving the Tributing of a Monster Card.

The Card Errata is a little vague on that. This requires a little investigating on what exact Mask of Restrict prevents the players from doing.
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LOL... The "old text" was a rather clumsy sounding syntax.

Mask of Restrict
Continuous Trap

No matter what the situation, neither player can offer any monster as a Tribute.
 
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