Replay

[John Danker]

UDE FAQ definition includes this description of a replay....

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target. The attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster, but choose a new attack target (including the original target, if possible & desired), or to not attack with that monster at all.

The question is, if a new attack target appears such as a monster which was special summoned with CoTH and the special summon is responded to with BTH, will the original attacking monster lose their ability to continue the attack?

It might look something like this...

P1 Attacks with Gemini Elf against P2's f/d monster.
P2 activates CoTH targeting his Reflect Bounder. (no additions to the chain)
P2 Special Summons Reflect Bounder with the resolution of Coth
P1 responds to the special summon with BTH.

Can P1 still attack with Gemini Elf?

Next scenario...

P1 attacks directly with Legendary Jujitsu Master and P2 activates Scapegoat. P1 responds to the summon with Enemy Controller to put one of the Sheep tokens in attack position and continue Jujitsu Master's attack on the atk position Sheep token. Legal?

 

[Absird]

The answer to both questions is yes. In the example one, I'll the the ultimate offering scenerio:
Summoned Skull Attacks Gemini Elf.
NTP trubtes GE for End of Anubis.
The number went from 1 to 0 to 1. It changed so a replay is declared.

In you example the number went from 1 to 2 to 1.

In the second it went from 0 to 4. If the opponant let the direct attack go through then a replay would not have occured

 

[Maruno]

Yes to both, I should think. I can't see why P1 wouldn't be able to attack with their monster.

For scenario 2, I would think a Replay is caused by Scapegoat's Special Summon, then the attack is redeclared against a Sheep Token, and then Enemy Controller can be activated to switch the attack target into Attack Position.

 

[John Danker]

I think perhaps you're missing the point. We know that the number of potential attack targets changes, that's not in question....the problem arrises in that something else has been activated between the successful special summon of the monster and the continuation of the attack of the original monster.

Read the UDE FAQ description again with that in mind...

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target. The attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster, but choose a new attack target (including the original target, if possible & desired), or to not attack with that monster at all.

So after the successful special summon the attack rewinds to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target...at this point they can choose to continue the attack on a new or the same target....but if they interupt that with the activation of a S/T card can they STILL continue the attack with the same monster?

 

[Absird]

It's not a "continued" attack, but a new attack with the same attacker and same target.

Once Call has fully resolved a replay would occur, no matter what happens to the Summoned monster

 

[John Danker]

I'm not disputing that a replay occurs, I think you're still missing the point.

According to the FAQ it is indeed a continued attack...

From the UDE FAQ...

WHAT IS A REPLAY? Revised May 2006
A replay is triggered when an attack has been declared, and then during the attack a potential attack target on the opponent's side of the field appears or disappears. A replay can also occur because the attack target is no longer a legal target during the attack.

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target. The attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster, but choose a new attack target (including the original target, if possible & desired), or to not attack with that monster at all.

Note that a replay involves the continuation of the attack or non-continuation of the attack. It does not involve a new attack.. If you pay 1000 Life Points to attack with "Dark Elf", and a replay occurs, you do not have to pay again in order to continue the attack.

The monster that was attacking when the replay occurred is still considered to have attacked the original target, even if you decide not to continue with attacking that target when the replay happens. It can not attack again after another of your monsters, nor can you manually change its battle position in Main Phase 2.

A replay does not rewind to the beginning of the Battle Phase. So attacks by other monsters that turn which have been completed are totally unaffected by a replay.

 

[RPGKid]

OK. I had this question, or one like it, a long time ago at a regional in Charlotte. This was when they first changed the rules on replays. Now, you cannot recall the attack with the first attacking monster, attack with another monster on your field, and then attack with the first monster again. I know that is not really what you are asking for, but that kinda puts that ruling in lamens terms. Now, back to your question. No, the original monster still gets to attack, regardless of how many things change on the field.
Example:
P1 declares an attack with a Gemini Elf on a Strike Ninja.
P2 decides to chain Strike Ninja's effect, removing him from the field.
P2 then chains Call of the Haunted to bring back a Blowback Dragon from the graveyard.
P1 chains Bottomless Trap Hole to the summons of Blowback Dragon, removing him from the field.
P1 now has an open field to attack the opponent directly with the Gemini Elf.

Do you understand? No matter how many times a monster is added or removed from the field, the original attacking monster still gets an attack. Technically, an attack does not target a monster, so it can't "fizzle out" like an effect that targets a monster if that monster is removed from the field. The replay will occur after all chains are resolved on the field. If that doesn't make any sense, I can try again. Hopefully, that answered your question.

 

[skey23]

Ok, for #1. I say yes for the simple fact that when "Bottomless Trap Hole" resolves, it triggers ANOTHER Replay.

For #2, upon continuation of the attack after the Special Summon of the "Sheep Tokens", the TP can activate "Enemy Controller" to change the Battle Position of the Token.

 

[kbs8014]

Ok, for #1. I say yes for the simple fact that when "Bottomless Trap Hole" resolves, it triggers ANOTHER Replay.

For #2, upon continuation of the attack after the Special Summon of the "Sheep Tokens", the TP can activate "Enemy Controller" to change the Battle Position of the Token.

Bottomless Trap Hole would not cause a replay. This would be an impossible scenerio. If you attack and the number of monsters on your opponent's side changes due to Call of the Haunted then you already have a replay. The replay happens before you could activate Bottomless Trap Hole.

 

[John Danker]

Bottomless Trap Hole would not cause a replay. This would be an impossible scenerio. If you attack and the number of monsters on your opponent's side changes due to Call of the Haunted then you already have a replay. The replay happens before you could activate Bottomless Trap Hole.

Yes, a replay happens when CoTH resolves and again when BTH resolves. In both situations a potential attack target has either appeared or disappeared.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

You would ake the decision whether to continue the attack or not before a player can respond to a summon.

When responding to an attack you cannot activate a trap card until every step has been paid. The replay rewinds the attack to an inbetween stage, and give another option instead of an attack target.

1-Select Attackingt Monster,
2-Pay Cost
(2.5) Where a replay rewinds to)
3-Select Attack Target (or cancel attack)
4- Then you can activate cards

The real question is whether or not you can activate Bottomless trap hole or if it misses its timing.

 

[masterwoo0]

What is the basic difference between activating Bottomless Trap Hole or Rush Recklessly?? The attack has not reached the Damage Step, so the player is free to activate a Spell Speed 2 or higher effect, which in this case is BTH instead of Enemy Controller or Shrink.

 

[John Danker]

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target. The attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster, but choose a new attack target (including the original target, if possible & desired), or to not attack with that monster at all.

With the above quote from the FAQ in mind, Enemy Controler shouldn't be a problem at all. If it was a normal attack (without replay) this is perfectly acceptable. Since it's being rewound to the point where the attacking player chooses the attack target.

The bigger question in my mind is BTH. BTH would not be in the mix in a normal attack scenario.

 

[masterwoo0]

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target. The attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster, but choose a new attack target (including the original target, if possible & desired), or to not attack with that monster at all.

With the above quote from the FAQ in mind, Enemy Controler shouldn't be a problem at all. If it was a normal attack (without replay) this is perfectly acceptable. Since it's being rewound to the point where the attacking player chooses the attack target.

The bigger question in my mind is BTH. BTH would not be in the mix in a normal attack scenario.

Okay, let's say that you declare an attack, your opponent only has one face-up monster on the field, you follow up with Ring of Destruction and a Replay ensues.

Is there a difference? It would be the same concept as playing Bottomless Trap Hole when your opponent summons a monster during the Battle Step after a attack declaration.

 

[John Danker]

Okay, let's say that you declare an attack, your opponent only has one face-up monster on the field, you follow up with Ring of Destruction and a Replay ensues.

Is there a difference? It would be the same concept as playing Bottomless Trap Hole when your opponent summons a monster during the Battle Step after a attack declaration.

Yes, there is a difference. In the scenario with RoD the number of potential attack targets has changed once since the original attack was declared.

In the scenario with BTH and CoTH the number of potential attack targets has changed twice since the original attack was declared and the second change was due to the attacking players card effect....does it make a difference? I don't know, likely not....nothing in the FAQ says that it would make a difference. It doesn't state that the very next action after a replay occurs (after the number of potential attack targets changes...in this case after CoTH resolves) must be the continuation of attack declaration....it's really never been addressed that I've seen though which is why I brought it up.

 

[kbs8014]

Okay, let's say that you declare an attack, your opponent only has one face-up monster on the field, you follow up with Ring of Destruction and a Replay ensues.

Is there a difference? It would be the same concept as playing Bottomless Trap Hole when your opponent summons a monster during the Battle Step after a attack declaration.

woo...

Your two examples are not the same. With your Ring example the replay occurs after Ring resolves.

With your Bottomless example the replay already happened before you are able to play Bottomless. Two very different examples.

Now, what is being debated here is when a replay occurs:

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target.

Some people feel as though the turn player has a decision to either play a spell speed two or higher effect (ie: Bottomless Trap Hole) or continue to attack with the monster.

If the the turn player opts to continue the attack then both players can respond as usual. The big question here is:

Can they only respond to the attack now? Is it too late to respond to the special summon, assuming that the replay was due to the NTP resolving Call of the Haunted?

Cheers,

 

[kbs8014]

Okay, let's say that you declare an attack, your opponent only has one face-up monster on the field, you follow up with Ring of Destruction and a Replay ensues.

Is there a difference? It would be the same concept as playing Bottomless Trap Hole when your opponent summons a monster during the Battle Step after a attack declaration.

sorry about the double post... how do I delete the second one?

 

[masterwoo0]

woo...

Your two examples are not the same. With your Ring example the replay occurs after Ring resolves.

With your Bottomless example the replay already happened before you are able to play Bottomless. Two very different examples.

Now, what is being debated here is when a replay occurs:

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target.

Some people feel as though the turn player has a decision to either play a spell speed two or higher effect (ie: Bottomless Trap Hole) or continue to attack with the monster.

If the the turn player opts to continue the attack then both players can respond as usual. The big question here is:

Can they only respond to the attack now? Is it too late to respond to the special summon, assuming that the replay was due to the NTP resolving Call of the Haunted?

Cheers,

There is no decision to make. Lets say you have a Gemini Elf in attack position, and you declare an attack on your opponent who has no defending monster.

They respond to the attack by activating Call of the Haunted and bring back a Archfiend Soldier.

Since it now causes a Replay, the player can continue his attack with the same monster or choose another monster, but regardless of the fact, he can STILL activate the effect of a Spell Speed 2 or higher card effect before moving on to the Damage Step, and if they choose to activate "Waboku", would that again make any difference when they can create more than one chain?

 

[John Danker]

woo...Now, what is being debated here is when a replay occurs:

A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target.

Some people feel as though the turn player has a decision to either play a spell speed two or higher effect (ie: Bottomless Trap Hole) or continue to attack with the monster.

If the the turn player opts to continue the attack then both players can respond as usual. The big question here is:

Can they only respond to the attack now? Is it too late to respond to the special summon, assuming that the replay was due to the NTP resolving Call of the Haunted?

Cheers,

That's actually not what I'm debating. Let's look at the FAQ statement again and then explination....

<Quote from the FAQ>
A replay causes the attack to "rewind" to the time when the attacking player chooses their attack target. The attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster, but choose a new attack target (including the original target, if possible & desired), or to not attack with that monster at all.
<End Quote>

From the way this is worded once the special summon of CoTH resolves, a replay occurs and the attack rewinds to the time when the attacking player chooses a target....from the way this is worded, at this point the attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster on previous monster or a new target, BTH would not be a card activated at the point of choosing an attack target.

So what I'm looking at is this...

When does the replay occur? (Answer) When a new potential attack target appears.

When does the potential new attack target appear?
(Answer) When CoTH resolves.

What are the options given at the point of a replay?
(Answer)The attacking player can choose to keep attacking with the monster, but choose a new attack target (including the original target, if possible & desired), or to not attack with that monster at all.

Now it's entirely possible that there are more options than what are given should the potential attack target be a special summon...it's just that they didn't cover that in the options given.

I'm just trying to make sure people understand what I'm asking here and why I'm asking it.

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

I think I get what you are saying....
AFTER CoH resolves, the play is rewound to th epoint of TP selecting an attack Target, THEREFORE can he legitiamtely activate Bottomless before he is REQUIRED to select the Target?

Is that the question?