Ring of Destruction vs. Bottomless Trap Hole

[Tkwiget]

Turn Player summons a Gemini Elf onto the field. Turn Player activates Ring of Destruction due to priority to destroy Gemini Elf knowing Player B has only 100 life points. Player B activates Bottomless Trap Hole.


Last time I checked Bottomless Trap Hole could only be activated in a response to a summoning. If Ring of Destruction is activated due to the fact Turn Player has priority to activate Spell Speed 2 cards from hand or on the field before opponent can activate cards, this means Bottomless Trap Hole wouldn't be activating in response to a summoning but would be placed in an illegal chain with Ring of Destruction.

This is just from thinking about it for a while that I've concluded that. Now if someone could please tell me what's wrong with the above situation? I feel as if Bottomless Trap Hole can't be activated because it's a non-chainable card.

 

[novastar]

It doesn't work that way.

Once both players pass, response timing is over.

Don't listen to that, it has nothing to do with "the last fact"

Response timing is a one time offer.

It's

[event] summon a monster

TP Pass
OP Pass

*Response timing is over

 

[Tkwiget]

So Novastar I've been right in assuming what I have been in my last few posts?

If I am, I am either smarter at figuring out game mechanics than I thought or I am just lucky..xD

 

[novastar]

So Novastar I've been right in assuming what I have been in my last few posts?

If I am, I am either smarter at figuring out game mechanics than I thought or I am just lucky..xD

Yes,

I know John has had Kevin show him this, but it's simple... Kevin is in error. Frankly, he always was.

It works as i have shown.

 

[John Danker]

It doesn't work that way.

Once both players pass, response timing is over.

Don't listen to that, it has nothing to do with "the last fact"

Response timing is a one time offer.

It's

[event] summon a monster

TP Pass
OP Pass

*Response timing is over

Quite honestly, I'd LOVE it to be that way. It would make it so much easier. I HOPE it ends up that way....it's just not as it was explained to me by Kevin.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Now I know why Kevin never comes here. He'd get pounded.

 

[Tkwiget]

Jedi that isn't the case probably. He doesn't want to associate himself with mere level 1 and 2 judges....T_T So heart breaking really...But at least we know that even Kevin can make a mistake. =) Makes me feel better..xD

 

[Digital Jedi]

Have you been to Pojo, though? Now don't get me for trashing anothe site, I'm just stating a fact here. There is a severe lack of maturity there. Nothing irritates me more when someone says "don't post information if you dont know what your talking about" He doesn't mind mixing with kiddies who can't talk respectfully to each other. Personally, I think, as many times as we've examined things here and said that Kevin was just wrong, and that we end up proving him wrong, might deter him from visiting.

 

[Tkwiget]

I've used this line many times in my life so far and I'll continue to use it. It doesn't hold 100% truth but it has some valid meaning behind some of Kevin's behavior.

"To talk to an idiot you must first become one."

That holds much truth with why Kevin doesn't come to COG. Which to be honest is completely sad. If he isn't willing to admit he could be wrong then he needs a reality check. He's human and humans make mistakes. You don't see me throwing a fit every time I make a pissy poor ruling do you? No you don't cause I want to learn and better myself as a judge and also YGO does help build character as Mr. Danker could very well agree with me on. During the FET Sneak Preview when I met him in person he told me something along those lines. It was encouraging and I still remember what he said.

So if Kevin can take being served in game rulings then he needs to stick to the sites that worship him as a god because no one here with a brain will.

Sorry if I sound overlly harsh. It's just how I truely feel about that kind of behavior and about Pojo. (I really hate that site. xD)

Anyway we should probably stop spamming this thread. xD

 

[novastar]

Now I know why Kevin never comes here. He'd get pounded.

Well, i don't know him and have never met him in person so i would never personally attack him. That said, of the few interactions i've had with him on Realms, and some the emails he's sent from the list, all i can say is that i wasn't impressed. The classic "sorry you feel that way, but Konami wants it that way" came out everytime he was challenged.

Overall and truthfully, and i know this will sound harsh, but there seems to be far more qualified people to have his job. He should not be Head of Rules, and i hope that eventually we get a new person in his place.

This game is about 4 years old now (in NA), and i still find long time players, who should know all the basics, that still dont grasp some of the basic gameplay elements. On top of that, we have been playing with mechanics (like Priority) for years now and yet we can't even find an official document to fully explain them.

That is sad, and is unfortunately (and maybe not soley his fault) a reflection on him, and the team that works for him. They might very well be great guys, they just might not be the right people for the job.

Personally, i'm glad that we are "UDE free" here, because i've been around long enough to see how it affects what you can and cannot say. I've really grown to love COG and the people we have here. Everyone is coherant, knowlegable and willing to learn and discuss. A breath of fresh air, that i would hate to see ruined.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Well I didn't mean he get attacked when I used the word "pounded." I meant he'd be questioned. Even called out as being wrong. Even actually be proven wrong at times. Not attacked. But from his perspective that might be almost as bad. We don't exactly hold back our opinions around here (albet politley, but we still don't hold back)

 

[novastar]

That's cool, i just wanted to make it clear that i have nothing personally against Mr. Tewert, any of the people that work for him, or any of the Netrepâ„¢s (i really like Steve).

I just disagee with his methods and rulings sometimes.

 

[John Danker]

I checked again with Mr. Tewart, Dave Brent, and John Williams on this Torrential Tribute issue. I wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.

All of their answers were the same. If the last fact to happen was the summoning of the monster (as in the example given earlier in this thread) then Torrential Tribute's timing would be correct.

I'm not saying how it should or should not work, what I am saying is that's how you should expect to have it ruled as that's the way it's been deamed correct by the powers that be.

 

[novastar]

If that's how they see it, nothing i can do.

It really doesn't make sense, as you can just passing on the same timing in an attempt to make the other person flinch and make a move. Doesn't seem right at all.

I really wish Dave would come on here so we could discuss this.

 

[papewaio]

I am not agreeing with Kevin's ruling on this, but just trying to see what kind of logic he may be using.

TP summons monster. Summons is not negated (i.e. by SJ or HoH).
TP does not use his priority to start a new chain.
OP does not respond to summons.

At this point the last thing to resolve was still a monster being summoned. Perhaps this is what Kevin is using to justify his logic. Since a card like BTH, or TT needs a monster summons for it to be activated, the summons is still that last thing to happen.

The problem this creates is that until something else resolves, the summons will remain the last thing to happen. So until something else resolved, you or your opponent could respond to that summons when you chose.

Using Kevin's logic.

TP summons monster and its summons is not negated.
TP passes priority.
OP does not respond.
TP plays Lightning Vortex to clear OP's field.

Now, LV has not resolved yet, so since monster summons is the last thing to happen, OP could play BTH or TT if they chose to.

Obviously this makes no sense, but if you were to extrapolate from Kevin's ruling, this would be possible.

This should not be that difficult. Each player should have 1 chance to respond to a summons. TP has priority, he passes. OP passes. Done. Simple as that.