Sasuke Samurai #3 / Null and Void

J

John Danker

Administrator
A fellow judge of mine who's name online here is Evil Fiberjar sent me this research project....I'm drawing a blank here and there isn't much I can find concering the scenario. I'd appreciate game mechanics being applied if you can relate them....I'm at work....not much time to get into it right now.

Evil Fiberjar's scenario is as follows.....

Ok if my Sasuke samurai #3 inflicts battle damage to my opponent's LP and in chain I activate Null and Void in response will it deck out the oppenent?

Sasuke Samurai #3's effect: When this card inflicts battle damage to your opponent's Life Points, your opponent draws cards until his/her hand has 7 cards.

Null and Void's effect: You can only activate this card when an effect of drawing card(s) is activated. Both players see the cards drawn by the effect and send them all to the graveyard.

The rulings say you can activate Null and Void in chain to Sasuke samurai #3's effect.

Another ruling says the card(s) discarded by the effect of "Null and Void" are never treated as actually drawn, so they are considered sent from the deck to the graveyard.
So in a sense, since they never actually go to the hand and "complete" sasuke samurai #3's effect to where they need the 7 cards would they have to keep drawing untl the effect of Sasuke Samurai is complete?

I'm assuming that Sasuke Samurai's #3 effect won't be applied again. It's activation has been completed and wouldn't trigger again. Still, it's an interesting question and one that should spark some interesting conversation.
 
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Ok guys, just stop thinking so hard ok? Raigeki? so you are sayin that we dont have to fullfill any effects of any monster card basically? Ok Ill remember that then. Like when i flip man-eater bug im not gonna destroy him because like you said basically SS #3 i wont have to destroy any monsters because he wont care if its the only card so he wont die. That is kinda how im takin how you worded it.

I can see how you guys think SS #3 resolves but I dont see how he DOES resolve. Considering he doesn't satisfy his own effect due to N&V then his effect must continue on until it has been satisfied and if it cant be then it cant stop. So then they'd be Decked.
 
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what raigekick is saying is that Sasuke Samurai #3 activates ONLY when it inflicts damage then doesn't care anymore. Null and Void only works on one instance, so after it discards the 7, it couldn't check the next 7, if they somehow showed up

-chaosruler
 
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Evil Fiber Jar said:
Ok guys, just stop thinking so hard ok? Raigeki? so you are sayin that we dont have to fullfill any effects of any monster card basically? Ok Ill remember that then. Like when i flip man-eater bug im not gonna destroy him because like you said basically SS #3 i wont have to destroy any monsters because he wont care if its the only card so he wont die. That is kinda how im takin how you worded it.

I can see how you guys think SS #3 resolves but I dont see how he DOES resolve. Considering he doesn't satisfy his own effect due to N&V then his effect must continue on until it has been satisfied and if it cant be then it cant stop. So then they'd be Decked.
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This is usually where I just wait to hear someone say they will submit it to the Judge List.

I agree that SS#3 never resolves, but apparently, I'm just one of a few lone voices in the dark.
 
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chaosruler said:
well, IMO, when you draw (window for N & V) that is resolving his effect.

-chaosruler
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Wouldnt his effect resolve "when" he gets 7 cards in hand? If he "picks up", which is not "draw", 3 cards because he already has 4, then those cards go to the Graveyard and he never drew 3 cards. At what point did he resolve his effect if he is still missing the 3 cards that he never drew?
 
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To cut to the meat here...

S.S.#3's effect activates when lp damage is done.

Null and Void is activated when cards are drawn

Null and Void resolves.

S.S. #3's effect cannot activate again because it only activates when lp damage is done and the last fact to happen was that Null and Void resolved.

Where is it written that S.S.#3's effect has to resolve?

Remember that there is never a gurantee that a monster card effect will resolve. Once activated and another effect activates and resolves the monster card doesn't reactivate.....unless perhaps it's Sinister Serpent in the standby phase.
 
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I understand now what your saying, but SS#3 isn't like pot of greed. His effect activates when the Battle Dmg is inflicted BUT his effect requires that they must DRAW the 7 to the HAND or how ever many they must draw until their hand has 7. And His effect must stay active until they have the 7 in their HAND. That means since it is still active that N&V will keep the cards that are SUPPOSED to be DRAWN into the HAND are going to be going straight to the GRAVEYARD from the DECK instead of the HAND. so since that is true SS#3 can't finish his effect that it must continue on until it is completed so since it will never complete, then the opponet will then deck out.
 
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I see what your logic is. This is how I see it:

SS#3 is chain link 1. NaV is chain link 2.

Resolution:
  • CL2: NaV will make a drawn card invalid.
  • CL1: SS#3 will allow the opponent to draw until the opponent's hand has 7 cards. (This is where the dabate gets in. NaV can not interupt this resolution, but can influence it by allowing you to see the cards and sending them to the graveyared. NOw, SS#3 does not know anything about NaV, all he does is let the opponent draw until (in his mind) he has fulfill the MATH count. He can count and determine that the opponent already has 7 in his hand, even though NaV simply sends them to the Graveyard)
 
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Evil Fiber Jar said:
I understand now what your saying, but SS#3 isn't like pot of greed. His effect activates when the Battle Dmg is inflicted BUT his effect requires that they must DRAW the 7 to the HAND or how ever many they must draw until their hand has 7. And His effect must stay active until they have the 7 in their HAND. That means since it is still active that N&V will keep the cards that are SUPPOSED to be DRAWN into the HAND are going to be going straight to the GRAVEYARD from the DECK instead of the HAND. so since that is true SS#3 can't finish his effect that it must continue on until it is completed so since it will never complete, then the opponet will then deck out.
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Where is it written that a monster effect must resolve? S.S.#3's effect did activate. Null and Void sent the cards to the graveyard (resolving Null and Void) S.S.#3's effect can't activate again because it didn't just inflict battle damage.....and I'm unaware of any monster effect that can pause, have another card resolve, and resume....however....everyone please feel free to prove me wrong! I love these technical discussions :D
 
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Ok now you are just being silly. Ok obivously cards cant count but thats besides what im trying to say. You see the fact that SS#3 has to resolve his effect, no he MAKES them DRAW and since they can never DRAW them due to N&V how can his effect resolve?
 
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Evil [ycard="LOD-EN056" said:
Fiber Jar[/ycard]]Ok now you are just being silly. Ok obivously cards cant count but thats besides what im trying to say. You see the fact that SS#3 has to resolve his effect, no he MAKES them DRAW and since they can never DRAW them due to N&V how can his effect resolve?
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No, I'm not being silly. I'm going purely by game mechanics....and no, I don't see that S.S.#3's effect has to resolve. I see that it has to ACTIVATE but I don't see as where it has to resolve.

Oh....and I'll get YOU at recess!
 
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well, you see SS#3 has to have already resolved to let them draw cards (condition is inflicting damage), then Null and Void is activated when the effect finishes resolving, because it cannot interrupt the effect of SS#3. So then, SS#3 thinks it has successfully resolved, but it has been made moot by N & V.

-chaosruler
 
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Ok 1st you fullfil the first part of SS#3's effect by inflicting the Battle DMG to their LP. Then The 2nd part of the effect comes into play where the must DRAW until they have a total of 7 in their HAND.
 
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