Shifting Targets

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ChaosMachine

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I'm positve this has been covered I just cant find it. Its more to do with game mechanics. Like Smashing Ground and Silent Swordsman does its effect vanish or does it target the next possible monster. Also Bottomless Shift Sand and Wildheart...same situation. Does the effect diappear or pick the next possible target. Thanks Guys!
 
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The game doesn't look for what monster it can do something to. It looks to see what meets the requirements of the card resolving, like in your case smashing ground or bottomless shifting sand. If the monster that currently meets the requirements for smashing ground is unaffected by spell cards, smashing ground resolves without effect, because the monster is unaffected. The game doesn't "skip over" things that are unaffected.
 
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With the trap card "Shift" can you designate an improper card to negate the effect? For instance, if the opponent activates brain control can you shift it to your facedown monster instead, thus negating the effect?


You can activate this card when your opponent designates 1 monster on your side of the field as a target of a Spell, Trap, or battle attack. Switch the target to another monster on your side of the field.
 
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Seeing as how you can change the attack target to a "Command Knight" when you have another monster on the field, I'd have to say you could switch the target to a face-down monster, and then the effect of "Brain Control" would simply disappear since it can't control a face-down monster. It would be similar to chaining "Book of Moon" to "Brain Control" to bypass it's effect.
 
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Is there any way we can ask Konami or some offical source to confirm all of this? I'm very intrigued to test Shift out because of all of this and I don't want to hear people whine about cheating or something. Or end up with some judge who doesn't think it works this way and end up with a dud card when going to a Local. I would really appreciate it. :D
 
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skey23 said:
Seeing as how you can change the attack target to a "Command Knight" when you have another monster on the field, I'd have to say you could switch the target to a face-down monster, and then the effect of "Brain Control" would simply disappear since it can't control a face-down monster. It would be similar to chaining "Book of Moon" to "Brain Control" to bypass it's effect.
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Sorry, Simon. I'm going to have to contend with you a little on this one. You can switch the attack target to "Command Knight" because ONLY your opponent is disallowed to sellect "Command Knight" as an Attack Target, the controller of "Command Knight" can select it as an Attack Target, if (s)he so desires. I would put Shift in the same catagory as Patrician of Darkness--Only LEGAL targets (and it is illegal to equip a Face-down card):

Patrician of Darkness
Effect Monster (Zombie / DARK / 5 Stars / ATK 2000 / DEF 1400)

As long as this monster remains face-up on the field, the controller of this card selects the targets of their opponent's attacks.

RONIN:

1. For this card's effect, the chosen attack target must still be legal. You cannot force a monster to attack directly if it normally cannot, or force a monster to attack a monster on its own side of the field.
2. The effect of "Patrician of Darkness" does not override the effects of "Marauding Captain", "The Legendary Fisherman", "Solar Flare Dragon", etc. You cannot choose an attack target prevented by the effects of these cards. Examples: You cannot choose "The Legendary Fisherman" as an attack target if "Umi" is on the field. You cannot choose another Warrior-Type monster as an attack target when you control "Marauding Captain".
4. If a monster has the optional effect of attacking directly, such as "Rainbow Flower", you may choose a monster as an attack, or a direct attack.
5. When you control "Patrician of Darkness" and a monster equipped with "Ring of Magnetism" you must chose the equipped monster as the attack target.
9. [Re: Command Knight] If you control "Patrician of Darkness" and "Command Knight", and your opponent attacks, you cannot choose the "Command Knight" as the attack target.
11. [Re: Inaba White Rabbit] This card can only attack Life Points directly. It cannot attack another monster. If the opponent controls "Patrician of Darkness" and you attack with "Inaba White Rabbit", it is still a direct attack; they cannot select a monster as the attack target.
13. [Re: Raregold Armor] If you control "Patrician of Darkness" and have a monster equipped with "Raregold Armor", you can only re-direct attacks to the monster equipped with "Raregold Armor" as it is the only legal target.
 
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I have to agree with DarkLogicianOfCaos here, because Kevin once said in another forum, if I remember correctly, that Command Knight cant be selected as an attack target, yes, but it CAN be selected for an effect that shifts attack targets. I think reading Ancient Lamp's rulings could help.

EDIT: Aint the YGO card name parsing not working anymore? I used it alot :(

EDIT: Oh, it has no rulings - boooo.
EDIT: Well, not on Netrep anyways. But it has quite a lot on UDE's site. Here is the most relevant one:
You can target a “Command Knight”, “Guardian Kay’est” or “The Legendary Fisherman” with “Umi” on the field with “Ancient Lamp’s” effect. You can target the opponent’s “Soul-Absorbing Bone Tower” even if they control another face-up Zombie-Type monster.
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Well there is no reasoning, as usual, so you can just believe me (and my memory) or not.
 
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I believe that the Japanese ruling is that Shift has to designate a valid target for changing the target of a Magic/Trap card.

As for Sakuretsu Armour, you would have to change it to a valid target: another attacking monster. But since you can't have two monsters attacking simultaneously, you can't use it.
 
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I'm guessing nobody realizes that "Shift" and "Patrician of Darkness" do not work the same way...
UDE FAQ said:
If you control a "Command Knight" and another monster, and your opponent attacks the other monster, you can use "Shift" to select "Command Knight" as the new attack target.
Click to expand...
UDE FAQ said:
If you control "Patrician of Darkness" and "Command Knight", and your opponent attacks, you cannot choose the "Command Knight" as the attack target.
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Why are they different? Why does "Ancient Lamp" work?

It's quite simple. They target. "Patrician of Darkness" does not.

I know that doesn't really have anything to do with the current question at hand, but I just wanted to point that out since that logic was used to try and debunk my answer....;)
 
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Thanks for the explanation... so can you use Shift against Sakurestu Armor and select another monster on your side of the field? If so, won't it fizzle since the new target is not attacking?
 
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I always took it to mean that the attacking was part of the activation requirement, and that Shift would just redirect the destruction, since Sakuretsu was activated properly. At least, that's what I recall being the ruling. But god knows what their saying now. I noticed the old Judges List is kaput, and even recent information is being retracted.
 
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LOL, missed that Simon!! Thanks.

Still, it seems contrary that you can use an effect that targets on an illegal target, causing it to fizzle. but not an effect that doesn't target. That just seems backwards! So, if we put it into the same category as Ancient lamp (which is really not a 100% corillary, as Ancient Lamp is a Trigger effect, whereas Shift must be activated, whcih tends to limit its usage with timing and targeting issues), then we still have an issue of "legal" targets:

RONIN (again-Simon, you must have that FAQ quicklinqed or something, the way you can pop those quotes up so fast!)

• The first effect of "Ancient Lamp" targets a monster on your opponent's side of the field (except the attacking monster.) If "Lord of D." is face-up on the field you cannot select a Dragon-Type monster as the attack target. If you cannot target any of your opponent's monsters with this effect, you cannot activate the effect.

Okay, honestly!! I am going to have to pulll every one of those cards and rulings, print them out and compare them, now, to get a handle on all the little nuances. I'll be back Monday.

BTW, Sakuretsu says "Destroy the attacking monster." Since the new target is not attacking, it would not be destroyed. I say it would be an illegal activation of Shift, Simon may say, it is legal, just wastefull.

 
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I don't see that the monster that is destroyed by Sakuretsu Armor has to be the attacking monster. After all, a Six Samurai monster can switch the destruction to a non-attacking monster easily enough.

The "attacking monster" text just makes sure you don't try to destroy some other monster instead. This is obvious by the "it targets" ruling, which happens at activation and targets the attacking monster. The only thing that happens at resolution is "destroy the targeted monster", which is how you can use Shift to change that target. The targeted monster doesn't need to still be attacking in order to be destroyed.
 
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I'm with DLoC on this one... at resolution the new target is NOT the attacking monster NOR an attacking monster. I know this is not an exact comparision but... comparing DLoC's and Nobleman of Crossout at resolution:

Sakuretsu Armor: Activate only when your opponent declares an attack. Destroy the attacking monster.

Nobleman of Crossout: Destroy 1 face-down monster and remove it from play....

And the known ruling for NoC if the target is flipped face up by Desert Sunlight then at resolution then the target is no longer valid and it fizzles. I would think the same is true for Sakuretsu, the target is not longer valid at resolution since it was shifted to a "non-attacking" monster. If I'm wrong, that's fine... I just want to understand this.... I IS CONFUSED!
 
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Maruno said:
I don't see that the monster that is destroyed by Sakuretsu Armor has to be the attacking monster. After all, a Six Samurai monster can switch the destruction to a non-attacking monster easily enough.
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A Six Samurai can also change Mirror Force to destroy a Defence-Position Six Samurai.

The difference is, Shift doesn't just change the destruction - it changes the whole effect to a new target. So, IF you can use it on Sakuretsu Armour, the new monster would be an invalid target, and the monster wouldn't be destroyed.

Although I'm not sure why everyone still says that Shift can change it to an illegal target.
 
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Actually Entropy, there's a whole different thing going on with the Samurai. It is not shifting the destruction of Mirror Force at all (otherwise, the destroyed Samurai would be destroyed by Mirror Force), rather, the Samurai that would be destroyed by Mirror force is using its own effect to destroy the Face-down Samurai to "purchase" (for lack of more convenient term) its own salvation. So Mirror Force is not destroying a Defense position {edit} Samurai (which would be illegal), rather the other Samurai is destroying the Face-down Samurai to save its own keister. Make sense?
 
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