Some questions: Berserk Gorilla, Wave-Motion Cannon

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Madma

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1) Can Tragedy be activated after a Berserk Gorilla has been changed to defense position? Can it be activated before Berserk Gorilla is destroyed by its effect, or after?

2) Can Wave-Motion Cannon be send to the graveyard while Imperial Order is Active? And will its effect work ('cause in that moment it will be in the graveyard)?
 
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The way it was explained to me is, because of the "Send this card on the field to the Graveyard . . ." portion of the effect, that the effect is active on the field and that it is not a truley Graveyard activated effect. I don't like it either, but I've never heard anything more official.
 
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Madma said:
Mmm, it sounds a little strange, but if you says so...
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Sending the card to the Graveyard is the cost to activate the effect.

You choose to activate it while Wave-Motion is still face-up on the Field, then you send it to the Graveyard to pay the cost. Therefore it is a Field Effect not a Graveyard Effect, because it is activated on the Field.
 
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well, skill drain is sort of like an Imperial Order for monsters.... and you can send Exiled Force to the graveyard and get its effect, where as Tribe doesnt get his because it IS still on the field..... wouldnt this sort of be the same??
 
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Its' just the same thing I was writing! read:

OK, but it seems to be the same of Exiled Force and Skill Drain, but the resolution in different...

Skill Drain negates all effect of those monsters that are faced-up on the field, but the effect of Exiled Force can still be activated because only the effect is negated, not the activation. And so, the effect of Exiled Force works normally because it is no more faced-up on the field at the resolution, it is in the graveyard!

Why is this case different?
 
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kingpinopie said:
well, Skill Drain is sort of like an Imperial Order for monsters.... and you can send Exiled Force to the graveyard and get its effect, where as Tribe doesnt get his because it IS still on the field..... wouldnt this sort of be the same??
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Now that IS interesting..

Imperial Order: "As long as this card remains face-up on the field, negate the effects of all Spell Cards on the field."

Skill Drain: "As long as this card remains on the field, the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters on the field are negated."

Both ONLY stop cards when they are ON THE FIELD. So why does one work one way and the other another way?...lol.
 
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Exiled Force's effect dosn't activate in the graveyard! It activates on the field (and the cost is to sent Exiled Force to the graveyard), then it resolves while it is in the graveyard!

WHY ISN'T THE SAME WITH IMPERIAL ORDER??????
 
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Look at it like this...

I activate Heavy Storm.

You Chain Waboku and to that Emergency Provisions sending Waboku to the graveyard as a cost for Emergency Provisions.

I chain Call of the Haunted to Emergency Provisions special summoning Jinzo.

Even though Waboku is no longer on the field it's effect is floating waiting to be resolved. Jinzo still negates the effect of Waboku which has not resolved yet.

In the same way as Emergency Provisions sent Waboku to the graveyard as a cost of activation Wave Motion Cannon sends itself as a cost, it's effect is still waiting on the field to resolve.
 
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Both only negate the effects if the card remains on the field, according to the text printed on both cards.

I hope you were being silly with the Exiled Force's misprinted rulings release thingy that I also can't remember where it was...

[edit]..crud AFTER John's post...sorry.
 
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skey23 said:
Both only negate the effects if the card remains on the field, according to the text printed on both cards.

I hope you were being silly with the Exiled Force's misprinted rulings release thingy that I also can't remember where it was...

[edit]..crud AFTER John's post...sorry.
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Text on the cards? <Hombre voice> Text? We don't need no STINKING text!

Since when do we go by the text on the cards? Since when does THAT explain everything?!!
 
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Spells and Traps are inherently different from monsters in that their effects don't stick to the cards (unless the cards are permanent).

Also, both answers to the original questions are wrong.

If Berserk Gorilla changes to Defense position, it will destroy itself and set "destroyed monster" as the last event. You cannot activate Tragedy as it has missed its timing.

If Imperial Order is on the field, you can't activate Wave-Motion Cannon's effect.

Edit: never mind the WMC answer.
 
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John Danker said:
Look at it like this...

I activate Heavy Storm.

You Chain Waboku and to that Emergency Provisions sending Waboku to the graveyard as a cost for Emergency Provisions.

I chain Call of the Haunted to Emergency Provisions special summoning Jinzo.

Even though Waboku is no longer on the field it's effect is floating waiting to be resolved. Jinzo still negates the effect of Waboku which has not resolved yet.

In the same way as Emergency Provisions sent Waboku to the graveyard as a cost of activation Wave Motion Cannon sends itself as a cost, it's effect is still waiting on the field to resolve.
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Really?!...Jinzo still negates Waboku, even though it's NOT face-up on the field anymore?

I was gonna agree due to the recently posted question about Wave Motion and Spell Canceller, but I noticed that Spell Canceller does not specify face-up. It negates the effects of ALL Spell Cards. The example given is REALLY close to yours as well.
 
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Yup! What you have to remember is once a trap or spell card is activated it's effect leaves the card itself, the card becomes an "empty shell" The effect floats on the field waiting to resolve.

The wording on Jinzo (for example) is misleading that way. I can see why people think that it would be incapable of negating a card that is no longer on the field but has yet to resolve.
 
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John Danker said:
Yup! What you have to remember is once a trap or spell card is activated it's effect leaves the card itself, the card becomes an "empty shell" The effect floats on the field waiting to resolve.

The wording on Jinzo (for example) is misleading that way. I can see why people think that it would be incapable of negating a card that is no longer on the field but has yet to resolve.
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An unresolved Waboku, not a already resolved Waboku, right?
 
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