Summoner of Illusions, again, for the moment.

CraniumX

New Member
Alright, I hate to bring this up again, since it was just answered recently, but since my deck is heavily running Summoner of Illusions right now, and it hasn't been answered in the new questions from the judge's list, I'd like to know if I should print out a copy of the "current" "old" ruling that Steve said seems to be the current thing between it and Fiend Skull Dragon, to take with me and show people in case there's any questions, or should I just let the judge there (assuming one will be around, there isn't always) make his own call?

I don't bring him out very often, but sometimes he's useful for his effect, and if he does stay on the field, that's just gravy to add. If anyone's heard anything different, I'd like to know as well.

I can't wait for Cybernetic Revolution, I can so abuse him with the two Cyber Dragon fusions, since one does breakthrough damage and the other can attack twice in one turn.
 
The ruling stands as is. Since it was not part of the current ruling revisions, then it has not changed. It isn't an "old ruling". It is the ruling until is it otherwise noted elsewhere.

This isn't to say that it won't change sometime soon with all these new changes coming in place. But even if it had been in one of this week's updates, it wouldn't be in effect until next Monday anyway.
 
That is the current ruling and a highly debated one at that. I was over in the Realsm and had chipped in on this one a few times.

What it seems to boil down to (and hopefully this won't stir up too much unwanted discussion) is as follows:

1) Is Summoner's effect of destroying the monster part of his effect or a condition placed on the monster?

2) Is Summoners' effect of returning the monster part of the initial flip effect, or an effect that occurs later on during resolution.

3) If the former, how is a monster able to negate an effect that he wasn't there for to start with? If the latter, where do you draw the line between activation and resolution effects.

That's pretty much the conclusions we came up with. Again, there are points to agree and disagree with here, and I think we're still waiting on an updated ruling on the matter, but it still stands that FSD will negate the destruction part of his effect.
 
1) I think it's part of his effect, at least due to the rulings, that makes the most sense.
2) I think the second effect is resolved at the end of the turn. Also, Summoner of Illusions destroys the fusion, it doesn't return it.
3) I guess it'd be some wierd contortion of the timestamp issue, I don't really know. ;)

-chaosruler
 
Well, it never came up today, thankfully, because I'm sure if it had, the "judge" (and I'll us that term loosely, for the moment) probably would have told me I was full of it, or blowing hot air anyway. I think he hates to be proven wrong or something like that.

Something did come up today though, that made me furious, and I don't get angry, but this was enough even for me. My friend had to borrow one of my decks to play today, since he had to rush down and couldn't get his own deck, and the only extra deck I had on me was my Insect Deck, and it contained two Millenium Scorpions in it. It was even winning, until the "judge" walked by and told him he couldn't play with those, they aren't legal yet. He proceeded to tell him what I told him, that new sets were legal in all UDE sponsored tournaments (which I don't know what this even is, there's never any Tournament pack-type prizes or anything like that, but then again I don't know the whole deal with how that works anyway for sure), but he said they weren't. I told him about the post on the Judge's List about it, and he said he never got that.... he's also said he's never gotten half of the things I mentioned to him. The store owner/TO is also supposedly on the list, but never got that post, or even any of the rules changes from the past two days, so he said.

We went to check out the policy documents on UDE, and they said TLM would be legal July 1, and he's supposed to go by what those policy documents say, according to UDE.
I went and showed them both the judge's list archive, on his computer, to the direct post that Kevin had made to the list, they read it, and he said "well now Upper Deck is contradicting themselves, what's a person supposed to do?"

By this time, I was getting frustrated, because my friend spent $10 in gas just to get there today, and then another $5 for the entry fee, so I mentioned, "Isn't it supposed to be a judge's job, or even an organizer's job, to keep up with all the rules and stuff, for the sake of the players?" Needless to say, the arguments didn't get anywhere, he still wouldn't allow my friend to play, but at least he did give him his entrance fee back.

I wish I had somewhere else to play, though, because that "judge" is off his rocker. I'm not sure how he ever passed his lvl1 test, because a few weeks ago, he ruled that Vampire Genesis could be summoned by the effects of Call of the Mummy in another person's game. If I had been taking a drink at that moment, I'm sure I would've done a spit-take, hearing that. I just rolled my eyes and groaned, I couldn't believe that one. I have great respect for judges, expecially pretty much everybody here, you've helped me iron out a few strategies that sometimes I wasn't sure would work, but I have very little respect for stupid people, especially someone who's supposed to be a "judge", that doesn't know half of the things that he should. It's either ignorance, or laziness, and I don't feel that we players should suffer for something like that, where if he's actually going to judge, he should really know the game, at least all of the important stuff.

So not only did my friend waste $10 gas money, I pretty much wasted $10 in gas and $10 in entrance fees for myself and my brother, and was so annoyed after that, I just decided to throw the game to a young kid that played me last time, so he could feel good about beating me, the same kid my friend WAS winning against, until the judge stopped him. We all just left after that, there was no reason to stay, the day had been ruined, and I wasn't having any fun anymore, I have enough mental problems as it is. It's a good thing my brother and I werent playing with decks that had new cards in them though, or the same thing would've happened to us, and I know my 14 year old brother would've been highly upset if that was the case.

Basically, I'd like to know, is the judge's mailing list that unreliable, that messages don't go through to people a lot of the time? It'd been almost a month since that announcement, and neither of them had even remotely heard of it.
I know Kevin, etc. are busy with all the new rulings and everything, but if the policy documents are supposed to say things like these, is it that difficult to go update them and add in a couple of sentences?

I wish there was somewhere else I could go to play, honestly, but I have to travel 80 miles just to get to the place, which is the closest place that holds a tournament. I play the game to have fun, but I do also play to win, and it really isn't everything. The only time I even get annoyed at losing, is when some cookie-cutter deck just goes through, wanting to win, and having very little fun and originality at all. When you travel 80 miles one direction to have fun, only to get annoyed and in an arguement, that tends to ruin everything. The only redeeming quality was one of the players, whom I respect a lot (even if he does often abuse time by looking at graveyards way too much, though he's gotten better at that,) almost always tells me he loves my ideas, and I must just sit at home a lot of times thinking of deck designs and things like that. He also said if he ever held any kind of tournament, he'd want me there to judge. I've showed him so many little tricks, I can't help but feel good about that. It's just a shame that some things like this have to happen, and when you try to help out everybody, as quite a few people had TLM cards from what I saw, just not in their decks, that all it ends up doing is upsetting you.

Just one last question, if anyone knows... is there /any/ projected date for the lvl1 judge's test to be put online to take? I've been looking for months now, still nothing. If not, the next major event I'll be going to is the CRV pre-release, as there's no regionals before then, as far as I know. Do you think it would be possible to take the test at that, or would they not even have it available?

I also apologize that this turned into a mini-rant, I'm just failing to see how some things like that can go unnoticed. I've even tried telling the "judge" about RONIN before, and how useful it is, but he just says everything he needs to know is in a little PDA he carries. Talk about someone that just doesn't seem to even have the slightest bit of enthusiasm.
 
Then you obviously won't want to rate it, either. ;)
Printing this up wouldn'tve done any good anyway, I mean, I showed them the exact message on the upperdeck lists, you can't really get much more official than that. I did print out the Fiend Skull Dragon thing, but as mentioned, it never came up. Thankfully too, because there's no telling if I would've ever heard the end of that. I guess that's what you have to expect when you're living in a generally hick state. It's lucky anyone even plays at all.
 
IMO the judge page isnt advertised enough. You only get an email with the link when you pass the level 1 test and thats it

They say the judge page is for the public, but if so, why don't they post the link in full view on UDE's official site?
 
That would be due to the fact that the Judge's List is not an official source of rulings. Only the website, www.yugioh-card.com, is an official rulings source.

Yes, ocassionally, official rulings are released to the Judge's List (like now as all these changes are happening), but those are posted on the website, and most of those have links to the official source.

Otherwise, all rulings on the Judge's List are NOT official rulings, but "informed rulings". The only way that a Judge's List Ruling is official is if it shows up on the official website.

Then, with that, to answer your last question: Konami controls the website. Not UDE. UDE has to get permission for every word that is written for the website.
 
That makes perfect sense about most everything, but would they even have to go through Konami to just get a US thing like a legality date for new sets in non-major tournament play added to the main FAQ page or policy document? I mean, heck, they even added a note that Obelisk the Tormentor was being released over here. Oooooooooo boy, THAT has a whole lot of playability. ;)
 
Oh, that change was done quite awhile ago. From the way you were speaking you were making it sound like there was a more recent change to that.

And I did, I just haven't had the chance to do anything yet.
 
bishop said:
That would be due to the fact that the Judge's List is not an official source of rulings. Only the website, www.yugioh-card.com, is an official rulings source.

Yes, ocassionally, official rulings are released to the Judge's List (like now as all these changes are happening), but those are posted on the website, and most of those have links to the official source.

Otherwise, all rulings on the Judge's List are NOT official rulings, but "informed rulings". The only way that a Judge's List Ruling is official is if it shows up on the official website.

Then, with that, to answer your last question: Konami controls the website. Not UDE. UDE has to get permission for every word that is written for the website.
So in otherwords if it doesn't show up on the main site we can ignore it? *Dashes off to see if they puy up Exiled Force vs EoA on the main site* ;)
 
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