The End Of Anubis & Exiled Force

D

daleotar

Guest
In the game F.A.Q., in the second paragraph the text about Skill Drain says:

? "Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects ?that activate in the Graveyard?, such as "Witch of the Black Forest", "Sangan", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Exiled Force", "Sinister Serpent", and "Vampire Lord".

That text says in a clear form that the ?effect? of Exiled Force activates in the graveyard in a very textual form, that which confirmate that as the effect of Exiled Force activates in the graveyard, The End of Anubis negates this effect.

To confirm these text, I say that one thing in many cards is activate the effect, other thing is the cost of effect's activation, and other thing is the activation of the card; if a card have a cost to activate, the player pays first the cost and if the opponent not chain a counter trap, its ?effect? resolves in a correct form, that is to say, first goes the cost and after the activation of the ?effect? of the card, ?that is different that the activation of a card?, that is to say that Exiled Force effect have a cost, and then, if the opponent not chain Divine Wrath, the effect activates normally, and then, at that time, Exiled Force is in the graveyard when the effect of destroy 1 monster on the field is activated.

Please respond me in this forum, because,in tournament many times I have lost because according to the approach of a judge the "effect" of Exiled Force not activates in the graveyard.

Please, is better if an official upperdeck judge responds me, to confirm my question in legal form.

David Tarazona
YU-GI-OH UpperDeck Judge LEVEL 2

Thank you
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
DimensionalWarrior said:
But isn't the removal of Peten the cost to activate its effect? If it's so, then it would work under The End of Anubis since it "Activates in the RFP zone"!
UAGH! Confusing!
Click to expand...

This was asked and answered on the mailing list.

You can use Peten's effect while EoA is on the field.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
In the Basic Gameplay Section:
-If the monster has an effect that activates when the monster is "sent to the Graveyard" (such as "Sangan", "Witch of the Black Forest", or "Mystic Tomato"), because the card was sent to the owner's Graveyard, it is the owner who gets the monster's effect.

I'm now worried about the ownership. I think that, before this new affirmation, all Effects activated in the Graveyard have always taken in care the ownership. Please tell me if there is a counter-example.

But, now, I can say that if I take control of my opponent's Cannon Soldier and Tribute it by it's effect, we will have an Effect activated in the Graveyard where "your opponent" is the opponent of the controller, taking aside the ownership.

- Are we now supposed to have two kinds of Effects activated in the Graveyard, due to Tributing Ignition Effects? Ejem...
- Will there be now some kind of clear difference between "sent to the Graveyard" and "Tributed by its Ignition Effect"? Ejem...
- If I take control of your Amazon Archer and your Sangan and I Tribute both for Amazon Archer's effect, both effects will be activated in your Graveyard, but the "your" in Amazon Archer's effect means "my", even if the card is activated in your Graveyard, because it is an Effect activated in the Graveyard based in an Ignition Effect that I activated, where the controller rules, and the "your" in Sangan means really "your", because it is an Effect activated based in the Graveyard Trigger Effect, where the owner rules, because the card was sent to the owner's Graveyard.

Ejem, ¿what? I got lost.
-------
EDIT: "Graveyard Effects" were changed to "Effects activated in the Graveyard".
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Effects like Exiled Force are not "graveyard effects", it just happens to be "in" the graveyard when it's effect activates.

If you were to tribute your opponent's Cannon Soldier, you will be the one who inflicts damage, even though Cannon Soldier is in your opponent's graveyard. You still get the effect because you are the one who tributed Cannon Soldier and it activated in your opponent's graveyard. These event occured because of a Player.

As for Sangan, Witch of the Black Forest, Pinch Hopper, etc. effects do not activate until the are in the graveyard then "activate" while in the graveyard.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
chaosruler said:
Nova - I was giving an example of extrapolating the ruling to an extreme level, but I agree, the EoA is incorrect. Konami ga sou iterrukara!!!

-chaosruler
Click to expand...
I know what you were saying, i wasn't blasting you, i was simply pointing out that your example is invalid and not applicable here even in the extreme case.

By the time you can chain Ring, the effect is already bought and paid for. That is not the same as this "Exiled activating in the Graveyard" ruling.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
densetsu_x said:
This was asked and answered on the mailing list.

You can use Peten's effect while EoA is on the field.
Click to expand...
Huh? Peten is a Graveyard Trigger, how in the world is it not negated?

If you just mean activate it and pay the cost i guess, since EoA does not stop activation, but the resolution should definately be negated.

"When this card is sent to your Graveyard, you can remove this card from the Graveyard to Special Summon 1 "Peten the Dark Clown" from your hand or Deck."
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Well after reading that new ruling I can only assume the FAQ on UDE's site is wrong since it says that costs are paid when activating a card/effect, I doesn't say before.
At least this would explain why a face down card can be tributed for it's effect (Kaibaman, The Creator Incarnate, etc...).
Paying costs before activation is a significant change to the game though since it will change where some effects activate.
I actually posted this lot to the list earlier this morning (and just realised I made a boo-boo with a Q on DDWL! :eek: )

Just realised:
Skilled White/Dark Magician are both tributed as a cost for their summoning effect yet it is the controller not the owner who gets the effect, marking them as clearly activating while still on the field, yet the text for this effect is amlost identical to Exiled's (there's the bit about 3 counters and no mention of face up for obvious reasons)?!?!?!?!? I'm now off to post that to the list as it means the one of the rulings doesn't fit.

Even if it does explain the ruling about tributing a face down The Creator Incarnate this new ruling has me confused as heck!
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
I blame this for my Q on DDWL! :p
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Digital Jedi said:
I meant a "logical" explanation. :p
Click to expand...
The more I think about it (the more I hate I have to think about it... lol), it almost makes sense.

If you activate an effect like "Tribe-Infecting Virus", you tribute a card as a cost to activate his effect, but it doesnt matter what type of card you toss because it's only the cost and Tribe is still on the field when the effect resolves.

When you activate "Exiled Force's" effect, HE is the cost of activation, whereas he is tributed and in the Graveyard when his effect starts and resolves. When you take the time to READ his effect, it actually makes perfect sense:

Tribute this face-up card (if we were to just stop reading at this point, "since there IS a period"; while this statement means nothing, it also is not the activation of anything either since we are not yet told what we are tributing him for).

Destroy 1 monster on the field (NOW we find out why we tributed him from the field. Notice it does not say he has to go to the Graveyard, so as someone noted earlier, he could still go directly to remove from game and his effect would activate).

Since we are presuming he goes to the Graveyard unless some other effect prevents this, Exiled Force IS in the Graveyard when the portion of his effect states, "Destroy 1 monster on the field" kicks off.


Without going into Cannon Soldier or any other monster we are now finding out may be influenced by this "new" ruling, I am at least comfortable with how I now see it from Kevin and Curtis' ruling.

Skill Drain not being able to stop Exiled from resolving his effect now apparently has more to do with him being in the Graveyard when he activates rather than just not being on the field at resolution....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
novastar said:
Huh? Peten is a Graveyard Trigger, how in the world is it not negated?

If you just mean activate it and pay the cost i guess, since EoA does not stop activation, but the resolution should definately be negated.

"When this card is sent to your Graveyard, you can remove this card from the Graveyard to Special Summon 1 "Peten the Dark Clown" from your hand or Deck."
Click to expand...

This ruling was based upon the same logic as is "Exiled Force". You remove the card from play so that it activates in the "Removed from Play" zone rather than the Graveyard so "The End of Anubis" would not negate it. So Peten isn't a Graveyard effect, it's a "Removed from Play" effect

Feel free to use the same debate with E-Force as you do with this. :)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
densetsu_x said:
This ruling was based upon the same logic as is "Exiled Force". You remove the card from play so that it activates in the "Removed from Play" zone rather than the Graveyard so "The End of Anubis" would not negate it. So Peten isn't a Graveyard effect, it's a "Removed from Play" effect

Feel free to use the same debate with E-Force as you do with this. :)
Click to expand...
What's the reasoning behind Skilled Dark/White Magician's ruling then? :confused:
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
In response to Masterwoo0: Sorry, forgot to quote. :)

I guess the confusion here is over when the costs are actually paid. I always thought cost/activation was simultaneous with costs not being refundable if the activation were negated. The way it is being explained, one would infer from this ruling, is that the cost is paid before activation.

The problem I have with that is that if you send something as a cost, you've forfeited the ability to activate it. Look at the rulings for Emergency Provisions. If I play Emergency Provisions, and select Waboku as a cost, I cannot chain Waboku for its effect because it is already in the graveyard and cannot be activated. I'd have to play Waboku first, and then chain EP to send it as a cost if I wanted to get Waboku's effect as well as 1000lp.

So how can a monster, who now exists in the graveyard because it was paid as a cost, activate a spell speed 1 Ignition effect? As far as I know, it can't. The activation would have had to occur at the same time as the payment of the cost, or else Exiled Force, Cannon Soldier, et al, should not be able to tribute themselves at all.

If Exiled's effect activates in the Graveyard, then no matter who uses him, the owner should get the effect, just like every other graveyard effect in the game. Or they need to revise the rule book and add a category for costed Ignition graveyard effects or something.

There's no logic behind this one that I can see.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Jdos, I agree. The more you try to explain something, the more it erodes something else. Its like cleaning up a stain on the floor. The more you wipe it away, the cleaner that particular spot gets, but now the WHOLE FLOOR is exposed to just how dirty it really is.

So do you just stay with that "one" clean spot, or now do you have to clean the rest of the floor so it all looks the same?

Exiled Force when tributed, I would say, is no different than when you flip Waboku face-up. The card is sent to the Graveyard, of course by Game Mechanics rather than a tribute, but the effect "floats" on the field until you use it.

Look at Cyber Jar for instance. "Destroy all monsters on the field." Obviously if he is flip summoned and not attacked, he destroys himself and he is then sent to the Graveyard.

Now, I would say that based upon what he have learned, using Exiled Force as the example, how then can we activate his effect to "pick up 5 cards..." if he is in the Graveyard? Is his effect 2 parts, or one part that activates in the Graveyard?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
masterwoo0 said:
Exiled Force when tributed, I would say, is no different than when you flip Waboku face-up. The card is sent to the Graveyard, of course by Game Mechanics rather than a tribute, but the effect "floats" on the field until you use it.
Click to expand...
But it is different. Exiled sends himself as a cost for activation, Waboku just activates. Apples and oranges. Emergency Provisions shows that you cannot activate something after it was used to pay a cost, so how does Exiled Force then activate in the graveyard? It is not Sangan. It has to activate on the field, or it makes no sense when compared to other rulings such as who gets the effect if it is controlled by the non owner.

Waboku's effect "floats" on the field why? Because it was activated there! Just like Exiled Force. That's my point. If you cost Waboku into the grave before its effect is activated, on the field, you don't get Waboku's effect at all.

masterwoo0 said:
Look at Cyber Jar for instance. "Destroy all monsters on the field." Obviously if he is flip summoned and not attacked, he destroys himself and he is then sent to the Graveyard.

Now, I would say that based upon what he have learned, using Exiled Force as the example, how then can we activate his effect to "pick up 5 cards..." if he is in the Graveyard? Is his effect 2 parts, or one part that activates in the Graveyard?
Click to expand...
Again, apples and oranges. Cyber Jar has no cost and is obviously activated on the field because it causes its own destruction...by its own effect. If it costed itself into the graveyard before it flipped, then no, it would not activate.

I like your example of the clean spot on the floor, but in this case, I think that instead of cleaning, they spilled some spaghetti sauce on the floor and are now in the process of coating the entire floor in sauce and hoping that nobody notices.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Toc toc! Excuse me...

I suppose you have already discussed about the two new answers given via e-mail about The End of Anubis.

Can someone tell me the right answer? Does The End of Anubis negate the effect of Exiled Force and Cannon Soldier??
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top