Updated Replay rulings!

S

skey23

Council of Heroes
For those who haven't seen them yet....

http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/en/faq_gameplay.aspx


So now, if a replay occurs and you decide to attack with another monster instead of the one involved in the Replay, you CANNOT attack with that initial monster again.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Example #3 of a replay:
The opponent controls only 2 cards: "The Legendary Fisherman" and "Umi". The turn player controls "Battle Ox" and "Summoned Skull". The turn player attacks with "Battle Ox", and attacks directly because of the effect of "The Legendary Fisherman". The opponent responds to the attack by destroying "Umi" with "Mystical Space Typhoon". A potential new attack target ("The Legendary Fisherman") appears on the opponent's side of the field. A replay occurs. The turn player can continue "Battle Ox's" attack, but it would be destroyed by "The Legendary Fisherman". If the turn player calls off the attack, and destroys "The Legendary Fisherman" with "Summoned Skull", "Battle Ox" cannot attack again this turn because it already declared an attack.
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skey23 said:
"Master Monk" doesn't have to attack back-to-back, so he's the same as "Mataza the Zapper".
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You missed the joke... lol

This time, I get to say you are too serious!!! That was supposed to be where a 20 page thread starts about "master monk" and attacking twice.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
'Tis hard if all is false that I advance
A fool must now and then be right, by chance. William Cowper, Conversation
English poet & translator (1731 - 1800)

WC2006 would be the fool.
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The sad part is that UDE is actually the fool, since the GBA games have been correct on several issues, for some time.

Konami makes the mechanics for the games, and they simply add, correct, and change things without telling UDE. Then months down the road, it becomes official here.

Alot of the time, the games are foreshadowing what will come, no "chance" going on here.
 
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...And then you get comments that remind you why you shouldnt use Videogames as a ruling source...


Ectoplasmer v. "unaffected by Spell Cards" 2006-05-04 17:19:00 <Jonathan Jones>


QUESTION:
The ruling states that you cannot Tribute a monster that is unaffected by Spell
Cards for "Ectoplasmer" because it is part of the effect, and not a cost.
However, these rulings were issued before it was decided that monsters
unaffected by Spell Cards could have the effects applied to them (such as
selecting them for "Creature Swap").

So, is it possible to select a monster that is unaffected by Spell Cards (such as
"Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6") for the effect of "Ectoplasmer" and just
have "Ectoplasmer's" effect disappear?
=============================================================
ANSWER:

You can select Horus LV6 for "Ectoplasmer", sure. But he won't be Tributed. So
the ruling is correct.

Remember that being "unaffected by Spell Cards" doesn't make a monster invisible
to Spell Cards. It just gives it a force field against the effects of Spell Cards.
So a missile (even an Ectoplasmic missile) can home in on a monster unaffected by
Spell Cards, but the force field will intercept and nullify the missiles.


(And before anyone asks, we know that "Ectoplasmer" doesn't work like this in
the video games. I've dueled Bakura so many times that I think every situation
with "Ectoplasmer" has come up. And, out of curiosity, we checked the latest
video game, and it doesn't do it correctly either. We can only assume that the
programmers didn't want to take an extra month just to program in the details
of "Ectoplasmer's" mechanics. Not that I blame them....)

Kevin Tewart
Sr. Game Designer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment


If you would trust a videogame on face value, when will you know that the effect is incorrect and conflicts with the real game? I have heard so many comments stating, "(insert card effect) always worked like that in the Videogame!!" Well, I guess if it always worked wrong, then that statement would only help to bolster the fact that you will never really know when an effect works the way its supposed to, unless you go by a REAL ruling.
 
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It was just yesterday when a video game didn't let my monster attack after a replay. I was like: Hey! I get another attack! Stupid video games...
It's funny to find out today that it is a new rule.
So should we see the game mechanics in video games as how the game mechanics are supposed to be, even when they're different from what the rulebook says?
 
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Knut said:
It was just yesterday when a video game didn't let my monster attack after a replay. I was like: Hey! I get another attack! Stupid video games...
It's funny to find out today that it is a new rule.
So should we see the game mechanics in video games as how the game mechanics are supposed to be, even when they're different from what the rulebook says?
Click to expand...

We use the rules from the TCG, not the video game (you can say that it is the same or looks the same, but not we use the rules from the Video Game).

The rules which are the most recent, that are the rules that we must use (on www.yugioh-card.com).
 
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Knut said:
It was just yesterday when a video game didn't let my monster attack after a replay. I was like: Hey! I get another attack! Stupid video games...
It's funny to find out today that it is a new rule.
So should we see the game mechanics in video games as how the game mechanics are supposed to be, even when they're different from what the rulebook says?
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Like I said before your post, if you dont know how something is supposed to be, how do you know that "IS" supposed to be?

Meaning, if you already dont know how it is ruled, you certainly arent going to know when it is incorrect, and trying to play as the videogame plays will only lead you to rely on a videogame for your rulings, and end up getting disappointed when you find out that "some programmer didnt want to take the time to do the effect correctly."

I dont have WC2k6. I have Duel Academy. Everytime I summon Blowback Dragon, and my opponent activates Trap Hole, he dies. We all know that I should be able to activate his effect first (unless those of you who swear by videogames now say that "that is how Blowback Dragon should play"), but NOT knowing that bit of info, should I accept that that is the way it should play??

For every right way a videogame plays, there are several "wrong ways" it does also, and more than one glitch is enough to make a videogame unreliable.

If something is wrong nine times, and right once, does it make the nine times it wasnt, okay, or somehow validated?

novastar said:
Alot of the time, the games are foreshadowing what will come, no "chance" going on here.
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For Blowback Dragon's sake, I certainly hope not....
 
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Yeah, I'm not going to be basing any rulings off a comupter game when the rules fluctuate in real life too much. The video game is accurate on a lot of things. That doesn't make the game acurate on everything. If the game cannot be accurate on everything, and you cannot succesfully predict where it will be accurate, then it is an unrealiable source for information. Not one to base rulings or mechanics decisions off of. The game isn't capapable of admiting when it's wrong or changing the way it plays things. And two wrongs don't make a left, or something like that.
 
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Because unlike most people, I actually pay attention to what goes on in the OCG and that include ruling changes and what not. That is why I take the video games more seriously than others even though I know I should not it as a rulings bible.
 
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And "unlike most people", I deliberatly ignore what goes on in the OCG. It's another universe as far as the game is concerned. Too many times they've played catch-up to try and synch us up when we shold have been synched up from the get-go.

Really, what is this constant need you have to defend your stance on the video game and how seriously you take it? You seem more intent on making the rest of us think your way as opposed to offering your opinion. We get it. You like the video games. You take them seriously. That's fine. We don't. What more do want from us? It isn't neccessary to dance a jig everytime the video game matches a ruling or mechanic. It's not the level of correctness that is the issue. It's the fact that we had to have a random mechanics change to match it in the first place. That kind of inconsistancy means that the game offers little or next to impossible info to define what should happen accurately. Why don't YOU try to see it from our point of view for a change? So can we move on now?
 
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masterwoo0 said:
I dont have WC2k6. I have Duel Academy. Everytime I summon Blowback Dragon, and my opponent activates Trap Hole, he dies. We all know that I should be able to activate his effect first (unless those of you who swear by videogames now say that "that is how Blowback Dragon should play"), but NOT knowing that bit of info, should I accept that that is the way it should play??

For Blowback Dragon's sake, I certainly hope not....
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Thankfully WCT2006 gives Summoning Priority, infact it's so accurate that you can only activate an Ignition from a face up OR a Spell Speed 2 or higher, no Normal Spells like previous games. They seem to have built this game for actual competition, so it's as accurate as possible, even Draw and End Phase Chain Points are included (they will ask you).

The ruling you quoted from Kevin seems like an old post because Bakura is not in WCT2006. I haven't used Ectoplasmer (or seen it played) yet so i can't comment on it at this time.

There are some bugs in terms of not giving an opportunity to chain to an effect that is activated, incorrect application of an effect or visual effects, but it seems very few and far between, and don't always repeat for the same effects.

I had one incident during a Duel Puzzle where i should have been able to chain to an Ignition and it didn't give me the option, or once Perfect Machine King's effect gave him -500 ATK for every machine-type, but i see that as normal because code is never perfect. But overall the mechanics are there. Also, these were not permanent flaws, as they worked correctly for most of the time, and bugged occasionaly.

I have both WCT2006 and GX, and WCT is definately the superior game in terms of mechanics.

While i definately wouldn't say that "the video game is right" I definately like to see some of the ideas that Konami toys with in these games, and prepare myself for new rules whenever they change something. For instance in 7 Trials they actually have a fully functioning Chain Point prior to the draw in the Draw Phase, they took it out in WCT2006, but i wouldn't be surprised if they bring it into the real game eventually.
 
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well, this change is one step closer to matching the OCG, it seens like they are actually TRYING this time (first 'Last Will', now the Replay Rule), we're getting there...
 
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novastar said:
The sad part is that UDE is actually the fool, since the GBA games have been correct on several issues, for some time.

Konami makes the mechanics for the games, and they simply add, correct, and change things without telling UDE. Then months down the road, it becomes official here.

Alot of the time, the games are foreshadowing what will come, no "chance" going on here.
Click to expand...

I find that fallacious.

As far as you know, the Video Game programmers are the one's who decided to make it work like such and such, and then Konami and the game's creator's after seeing it decided that maybe it should work that way in the OCG/TCG as well.

Video Game will not be very popular if it ends up being "slow," the replay rule might have been developed in order to avoid repeating too many steps (Avoid slowing the video game down)

And that's where it comes down to chance, you have no idea why the video game made it work that certain way.

If I were asked how many legs does an insect have, and i rolled a die for the answer, it rolled a six, would you say that the die was "right?" or would you say that the die was completely irrelevant?
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
I find that fallacious.

As far as you know, the Video Game programmers are the one's who decided to make it work like such and such, and then Konami and the game's creator's after seeing it decided that maybe it should work that way in the OCG/TCG as well.

Video Game will not be very popular if it ends up being "slow," the replay rule might have been developed in order to avoid repeating too many steps (Avoid slowing the video game down)

And that's where it comes down to chance, you have no idea why the video game made it work that certain way.

If I were asked how many legs does an insect have, and i rolled a die for the answer, it rolled a six, would you say that the die was "right?" or would you say that the die was completely irrelevant?
Click to expand...

our "updated" Replay rule is how it always worked in the OCG, and all Video Games are based on the OCG rules.
 
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It's Konami's game, whether it be the TCG or the OCG.

One does not take precedence over the other, Konami makes the rules for both games.

And yes the OCG has changed rules to match the TCG.
----

Even games released in Japan first are necessarily based on the OCG.

Everything is based on Mr. Takahashi's ideas. The correct assumption is that the OCG and the video games are based on the same thing, and that's why they (Coincidentally) seem so similar.

It is an error to assume that one is based on the other.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/confusing-cause-and-effect.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ignoring-a-common-cause.html
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
I find that fallacious.

As far as you know, the Video Game programmers are the one's who decided to make it work like such and such, and then Konami and the game's creator's after seeing it decided that maybe it should work that way in the OCG/TCG as well.

Video Game will not be very popular if it ends up being "slow," the replay rule might have been developed in order to avoid repeating too many steps (Avoid slowing the video game down)

And that's where it comes down to chance, you have no idea why the video game made it work that certain way.

If I were asked how many legs does an insect have, and i rolled a die for the answer, it rolled a six, would you say that the die was "right?" or would you say that the die was completely irrelevant?
Click to expand...
Although i do see what you are getting at here, it seems that you don't understand the process of game development.

There is absolutely no way that the actual programmers would be able to build the game without direct instructions, with repect to rules and mechanics, directly from the YGO designers. As far as i'm concerned none of us even knows if one of the actual designers of YGO itself is also part of the development team for the video games, on the programming side. Infact, alot of card game designers are also programmers, since the 2 are very closely related.

Is it possible that the vid games influenced the actual card game? yes it is, agreed there.

However, this particular rule is clearly not designed to "speed up" the game, as the only real difference is that only the current monster is able to redesignate the target, rather than allowing any monster to attack.

Konami is both the developer of the card and video games, the rules have existed for a while in the OCG, and several mechanics have been incorperated into the vid games long before ever coming here. The TCG in the majority of cases has been the follower and not the leader, and both bodies are governed by Konami anyway.

How much proof is needed to illustrate that our NA side is out of the loop, and we should take notice when Konami makes very specific additions or subtractions on the OCG side and the vid games?
 
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