About Bait Doll

antilegend

New Member
Bait Doll
(Labyrinth of Nightmare)
Force the activation of 1 face-down Trap Card. If the timing of the activation of the Trap Card is incorrect, negate the effect and destroy it. If it is not a Trap Card, it is returned to its original position. After this card is activated, it is placed into the Deck (not the Graveyard). Then shuffle the Deck.

1) If Bait Doll did not force the activation of a card (the card is chained, destroyed by MST, etc.), did it return to the deck?
2) You can activate Bait Doll on YOUR OWN trap card so you don't have to pay the cost, right? (e.g. Return from the Other Dimension)
3) If you activate Bait Doll on a face-up Trap card that is set previously in the same turn (e.g. Opponent's Trap set by Dust Turnado or you own Trap set previously), will it be considered "Incorrect Timing" and get destroyed?

Thx for the answers~
 
1. As long as the activation and effect of "Bait Doll" was not negated, it will be shuffled back into the deck.

2. I believe this is valid.

3. Yes, as the trap card could not have been activated that same turn anyway.


Hope this helps.
 
Man, I always seem to get confused by this guy and I run the card too.

To my knowledge, Trap cards with costs were negated and destroyed becuase when you forced the activation, you didn't pay for its activation cost, and therefore made it an invalid actvation.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
According to the Netrep Files 6.0b:

"If "Bait Doll" targets a Trap Card with an Activation cost, the Activation cost does not have to be paid."

Now, this may not still be the case, but that's all I have for now.
 
Dillie-O does have a point.

Bait Doll forces activation, but does not cover coditions to activate an effect.

So if you were activate Bait Doll, target your own face-down Return from the Different Dimension, it will be destroyed.

It isn't incorrect timing here, you just can't have an effect go off without a cost to activate it in the first place.
 
skey23 said:
According to the Netrepâ„¢ Files 6.0b:

"If "Bait Doll" targets a Trap Card with an Activation cost, the Activation cost does not have to be paid."

Now, this may not still be the case, but that's all I have for now.

LoL, if this true, Bait Doll sure would be fun against Wall of Revealing Light, if your opponent isn't smart enough to chain it. :D

But without the cost being able to go through, you can't pull through with the effect.
 
Yeah, I remember seeing this in the old Netrepâ„¢ files, but I thought maybe something hand changed in it since then... hmm....

Here's what we know courtesy of RONIN...

"¢ If "Bait Doll" is activated and targets an "Imperial Order" the opponent may chain the "Imperial Order" which will negate the effect of "Bait Doll" and it will not be returned to your Deck. Or the opponent can allow "Bait Doll" to force the activation of "Imperial Order", and "Bait Doll" will be shuffled into the Deck and "Imperial Order" will remain active on the field because the timing of its activation was legitimate.

"¢ If "Bait Doll" is activated and targets "Magic Jammer", "Magic Drain", etc. the opponent may chain the Trap Card to negate and destroy "Bait Doll". If he / she does not, the Trap Card will be destroyed since the activation timing is incorrect, and "Bait Doll" will be shuffled into your Deck.

"¢ You cannot chain to a Trap Card that was forced to activate by the effect of "Bait Doll" since an existing Chain is in the middle of resolving.

"¢ If "Jinzo" is face-up on the field and the effect of "Bait Doll" forces the activation of a Normal or Counter Trap Card, that Trap Card's effect is negated and the Trap Card is destroyed. If a Continuous Trap Card is forced to activate by the effect of "Bait Doll" it will remain face-up on the field meaninglessly until "Jinzo" is destroyed.

"¢ If the target of "Bait Doll" is no longer on the field (if it was sent to the Graveyard with "Emergency Provisions", or destroyed by "Mystical Space Typhoon", as a chain to the activation of "Bait Doll"), then "Bait Doll" is still shuffled back into the Deck. As long as the activation and effect of "Bait Doll" are not negated, the effect of "Bait Doll" that shuffles it back into the Deck still resolves.

"¢ [Re: Judgment of Anubis] You can activate "Judgment of Anubis" and select a Spell Card that negates the activation of a card and destroys it, like "My Body as a Shield" or "Bait Doll".

"¢ [Re: Serial Spell] If you chain "Serial Spell" to "Bait Doll", the entire effect of "Bait Doll" is applied and "Serial Spell" is also shuffled back into your Deck.

"¢ [Re: Tornado Wall] "Tornado Wall" may be Set on the field if "Umi" is not on the field, but it cannot be activated. If targeted by "Bait Doll" when face-down and "Umi" is not on the field, it is destroyed.


The thing to notice in particular is that Imperial Order goes through the baiting fine becuase it doesn't have any activation conditions.

Magic Jammer can't go through because its required to be activated in response to the activation of a trap card. When we resolve Bait Doll's effect, the time has passed. Unfortunately this particular ruling doens't take costs into account.

<digs up some UDE lists>

OOOH! here's some juice...


If Bait Doll targets a face-down Wall of Revealing Light, would that mean that the wall would:

A. Potentially be able to block an infinitely high attacker, since one wouldn't have to pay however much they designated.

B. Since zero lifepoints were payed, Wall of Revealing Light would remain on the field meaninglessly, and all monsters with over zero attack would be able to.

C. Since Wall of Revealing Light Requires at leat 1000 lifepoints to be payed in order to play it, Wall would be destroyed if the cost was not payed.

All scenarios are assuming that the player who controlls Wall of Revealing Light does not chain it in activation to Bait Doll.

I would imagine that C. would be the correct ruling. Is this correct?

Answer:

C is close, but still not quite there.

"Wall of Revealing Light" remains in play meaninglessly because no cost was paid. (nor could be paid in this case)


aww man...I think I found our answer...

Does a player have to pay the cost for the activation of a Trap Card that is forced to activate from Bait Doll?

Thanks

Answer:

You do not pay the activation cost of Traps "Bait Doll" forces to activate.


That would seem to indicate you don't have to pay the activation costs...but wait, doesn't that conflict with the whole Wall of Reveling light thing? Maybe not, its just that Wall is a special case where the amount paid also affects the resolution. So in this case you'd have 0 cost, 0 benefit.

Okay, the server guy should be calling me now, I should get back to work 8^D
 
So if I target my own , for example , Skill Drain I will not pay the cost but the card is destroyed or I will not pay the cost and it ramains on the field negating all face up effect monsters? (sorry for my bad english anyway :°P and I prolly didn't get something you explained X°d ).
 
Chipp Zanuff said:
So if I target my own , for example , Skill Drain I will not pay the cost but the card is destroyed or I will not pay the cost and it ramains on the field negating all face up effect monsters? (sorry for my bad english anyway :°P and I prolly didn't get something you explained X°d ).
From what Dillie-O posted and from what was stated in the Netrep Files 6.0b, if you target your "Skill Drain", and it's NOT the same turn it was set, you will NOT have to pay the 1000 lps, AND it WILL stay on the field active.
 
Wall of Revealing Light cannot be paid for when Bait Doll forces the activation.

Since it cannot be paid for, but is still active, "0" is the limit of all monsters that cannot attack, even though its not really activated in the sense that a normally activated WoRL would be.

Since monsters with "0" attack cannot inflict damage in the first place, all monsters are free to attack that have higher than "0" attack (and even monsters with no attack power, or "0", can still attack, even if its just to flip a face-down monster face-up).
 
Thank you for all the explanations, guys... but still, if Bait Doll targets a face-down Trap set previously in the turn, will the Trap be negated and destroyed or does the effect of the Trap still activate? I see some answers up there but I need a clear answer, so, please make it clear for me.
 
antilegend said:
Thank you for all the explanations, guys... but still, if Bait Doll targets a face-down Trap set previously in the turn, will the Trap be negated and destroyed or does the effect of the Trap still activate? I see some answers up there but I need a clear answer, so, please make it clear for me.
All Bait Doll does is "force" the activation of the Trap Card. If the Trap Card "can" be activated, then Bait Dolls effect Disappears, but it still goes back to the deck UNLESS the card activated, or chained to Bait Doll negated it, then Bait Doll would go to the Graveyard instead.

If you set "Trap Hole" on a previous turn, and it is activated by Bait Doll, then the timing is incorrect and Trap Hole is negated and destroyed.

If you set "Waboku" on a previous turn and it is targeted by Bait Doll, you may chose to chain it to Bait Doll, or allow it to be destroyed. It's your choice, as the timing is correct for activation unless Jinzo is active.

If you set Waboku on your turn, and use Bait Doll on it the same turn it was set, the timing is incorrect and it would be negated and destroyed.

Also, even if the Trap Card is a chainable one, like Compulsory Evacuation Device, your opponent still has to chose to use its effect since Bait Doll is the only card being activated. You cannot chain to destroy CED if the effect of Bait Doll is the only effect resolving.
 
So lets say that I activate Return from the Different Dimension (I'm going to love this card X°d) and special summon from the RFG pile 1 monster for each wind , fire , water and earth and then forcing my facedown Elemental Burst with Bait Doll....if my opponent isn't going to stop the Bait Doll then he cannot chain anithing against the burst and everithing on his side of the field will be devastated without me losing the monsters that I special summond , that would be game over Oo. Or my Elemental Burst would be destroied by Bait Doll because it says to tribute the monster to activate it? it's that a cost or not? I'm a bit confused. *dies because his head exploded*
 
Really?

Does a player have to pay the cost for the activation of a Trap Card that is forced to activate from Bait Doll?

Thanks

Answer:

You do not pay the activation cost of Traps "Bait Doll" forces to activate.
chaosruler said:
Tributing is a cost to activate, so no effect of Elemental Burst for you ;)

-chaosruler
The way I'd have thought it would go is that the cost wouldn't need to be paid, but the effect still goes through.
 
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