About Bait Doll

A

antilegend

New Member
Bait Doll
(Labyrinth of Nightmare)
Force the activation of 1 face-down Trap Card. If the timing of the activation of the Trap Card is incorrect, negate the effect and destroy it. If it is not a Trap Card, it is returned to its original position. After this card is activated, it is placed into the Deck (not the Graveyard). Then shuffle the Deck.

1) If Bait Doll did not force the activation of a card (the card is chained, destroyed by MST, etc.), did it return to the deck?
2) You can activate Bait Doll on YOUR OWN trap card so you don't have to pay the cost, right? (e.g. Return from the Other Dimension)
3) If you activate Bait Doll on a face-up Trap card that is set previously in the same turn (e.g. Opponent's Trap set by Dust Turnado or you own Trap set previously), will it be considered "Incorrect Timing" and get destroyed?

Thx for the answers~
 
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Wall of Revealing Light
Continuous Trap

When you activate this card, pay any multiple of 1000 Life Points. None of your opponent's monsters with ATK equal to or less than the Life Points you paid can attack.

against:

Elemental Burst
Normal Trap
Tribute 1 each of WIND, WATER, FIRE, and EARTH monsters on your side of the field to activate this card. Destroy all cards on your opponent's side of the field.

this is what I think differentiates the two cards. If I'm wrong, so be it. ;) At least I'm trying..

-chaosruler
 
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I thought that in the first place but just wanted to be sure not to do a tremendous error and you confirmed my doubts so I thank you .also I never intended to force Fuh-Rin-Ka-Zan with Bait Doll because it don't need to destroy my precious attak force in order to activate.

but keep in mind that , if I don't get it wrong , if you force your trap to activate and they don't stop your Bait Doll , they couldn't chain anything to your trap :d.
 
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Ah, okay. It's the wording that's the issue here. To use its effect, you must Tribute those monsters. If you don't (and Bait Doll says you don't) then you can't activate it properly, it has incorrect timing and is destroyed.
 
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I think the whole ruling with Bait Doll not requiring activation costs to be paid was meant more in terms of that you don't have to pay the costs for the trap so that you don't lose the activation cost and the trap due to incorrect timing, e.g. Bait Doll on your Solemn Judgement = half LP and lose your SJ, not as a way to use it to circumvent costs. If the cost wasn't paid it's incorrect timing. This is just how I see it, what do you guys think?

The reason Wall of Revealing Light can be considered correctly activated when targeted by Bait Doll is that 0 is still a multiple of 1000.


Also if Bait Doll is not negated but is destroyed via MST/Dust Tornado it doesn't get shuffled back into the deck.
[url="http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=3219#3219" said:
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=3219#3219[/url]]My opponent activates "Bait Doll" targeting my face-down "Dust Tornado".

I chain with the "Dust Tornado" and target the "Bait Doll". Would "Bait Doll"
be destroyed and sent to the graveyard, then returned to the deck from the
graveyard?



Answer:

No. It has been destroyed and will remain in the Graveyard.

---------------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrepâ„¢
CurtisSchultz_netrep@Hotmail.com
Click to expand...
 
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chaosruler said:
Wall of Revealing Light
Continuous Trap

When you activate this card, pay any multiple of 1000 Life Points. None of your opponent's monsters with ATK equal to or less than the Life Points you paid can attack.

against:

Elemental Burst
Normal Trap
Tribute 1 each of WIND, WATER, FIRE, and EARTH monsters on your side of the field to activate this card. Destroy all cards on your opponent's side of the field.

this is what I think differentiates the two cards. If I'm wrong, so be it. ;) At least I'm trying..

-chaosruler
Click to expand...
You got the right idea on Elemental Burst. You cannot activate this card "until" you tribute the selected monsters.

As far as Wall goes, 0 is not a multiple of 1000 as zero is not divisible by any number.

The reason you can still activate Wall of Revealing Light is you are only paying the cost to stop monsters with an attack power in increments of 1000, but since there was no cost payment, all monsters with an attack power greater than zero can attack.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
You got the right idea on Elemental Burst.
As far as Wall goes, 0 is not a multiple of 1000 as zero is not divisible by any number.

The reason you can still activate Wall of Revealing Light is you are only paying the cost to stop monsters with an attack power in increments of 1000, but since there was no cost payment, all monsters with an attack power greater than zero can attack.
Click to expand...
0 x 1000LP = 0LP
Zero can be divided by any number, it's just that the answer you will always get back is zero, the only exception is if you divide it by itself since any number over zero is deemed to be infinity so as to whether it is equal to 1 or infinity gets a bit messy.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
The point acutally is, you cannot have 1000 "zero's" to equal 1000, so zero cannot be a multiple of 1000.
Click to expand...
Is zero Miles not still a distance in Miles? Zero is still a multiple of 1 Mile otherwise how would we know when we reach a place/time/anything else which requires measurement with respect to something.
 
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I like this...

If I have a given distance of 1000 miles, with my starting point at mile zero; if I never move from my starting point, I have neither gained nor loss mileage, which means I have not decreased the distance I need to go, so I remain at 1000.

0+0+0+...... 1000 times does not equate to 1000.

Zero is the absence of quantity, so you can only "add to" zero using a "real number" other than zero.

Relating this back to Wall of Revealing Light, if I cannot pay life points to increase the number from 0 to a multiple of 1000, then I have not activated the effect of preventing monsters between 0-1000 life points from attacking.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Relating this back to Wall of Revealing Light, if I cannot pay life points to increase the number from 0 to a multiple of 1000, then I have not activated the effect of preventing monsters between 0-1000 life points from attacking.
Click to expand...
True enough the fact that on the Judge List the put it as "it remains on the field meaninglessly" would imply that they don't view zero as a valid multiple of 1000. Now to start e-mailing them with quirky maths proving things such as how one number in fact equals another (I do in fact have such proof!:D ), the small circle theorem, etc... I'll have them questioning their very sanity! :p (we need an evil grin smiley)
 
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<sigh />

Hopefully we're not at "beating a dead horse" status yet, but this is one thing I want to make sure I'm reading correctly....

Bait Doll targets Fuh-Rin-Ka-Zan - When "Fanny" is flipped, it requires all the elements to be on the field in order to activate. Assuming all the elements are not there, Fanny's activation is incorrect and Fanny is destroyed

Bait Doll targets Elemental Burst - The elemental monsters is an activation cost for Elemental Burst. Since you don't have to pay activation costs for Elemental Burst, the timing is not considered incorrect (given our previous references in this thread), so Elemental Burst can go through as planned. This would also allow a targeted Skill Drain to activate properly, since you don't have to pay the 1000 and there is no other requirements on activation.

...man, I'm almost positive now there is going to be a Bait Doll question on my L2 test and I'll _STILL_ get it wrong 8^D
 
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Raijinili said:
0/0 != Infinity.

It APPROACHES infinity.
Click to expand...

Not that I see the relevance there, but that statement isn't correct either. Mathematically speaking, 0/0 is an indeterminent value. It could diverge to infinity, or it could converge to a finite number.
 
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