ChaosMachine
New Member
please tell me this is correct. crossout on face down vampire lord. op chains deck dev virus. i chain compulsory evac. deck dev now does not resolve? and can deck dev be used on cards like fusilier while face down?
Deck Dev
- Thread starter ChaosMachine
- Start date
krazykidpsx
New Member
see, its not about you knowing its about the game knowing.novastar said:
nova just stated what i was gonna say.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
So, that goes to show that if an effect doesnt know what the face-down card is, why should it matter that you know that Fusilier Dragon is set without tribute?
All the Deck Devastation Virus sees is a 2800 face-down Dark Monster.....
All the Deck Devastation Virus sees is a 2800 face-down Dark Monster.....
krazykidpsx
New Member
correct becuase the effect of fusiler dragon isnt in effect till it is face up and the game realizes it is a 1400 attacker not a 2800
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
You never "flip" the card. You only look at it to see what the stats are.krazykidpsx said:
krazykidpsx
New Member
well you wont know untill you check now wont you, and by this point in time the card is already resolving.
krazykidpsx said:see, its not about you knowing its about the game knowing.
nova just stated what i was gonna say.
Wouldn't it be redundant to say that the game "knows"? If the game "knows" then it will know it is a 1400 atk monster because of the fact that it used it's effect to be able to be set.
No the point is that My Body looks for the requirement in the effect of DDV not the monster that "will" be destroyed.slither said:
Since DDV must check it is still unknown to My Body whether DDV will actually destroy it.
Now if you said Fusilier were face-up, you might have a case.
The whole destruction aspect of DDV is completely unknown, it needs to "look" and "find" so its indefinate.
In fact DDV doesn't need an actual monster of any kind on the field or in the hand to be activated... that should be self explainatory right there as to whether My Body can be used against it.
krazykidpsx
New Member
the only knowledge the game has is that you set a creature without tribute.
odds are it could be a regular old 4 star or lower creature.
that is all the game knows, YOU in the other hand knows that you set a 1400 fusiler dragon. so overall knowledge of the game is that only 1 player knows what is set.
odds are it could be a regular old 4 star or lower creature.
that is all the game knows, YOU in the other hand knows that you set a 1400 fusiler dragon. so overall knowledge of the game is that only 1 player knows what is set.
I don't see where you are going with this?slither said:
The game does keep track of certain aspects, whether you summoned or not, what Phase/Step you are in etc...
As far as how a monster was summoned that is a characteristic given to the monster when brought to the field. One of the reasons Jowgen can destroy then long after being summoned.
So even if Fusilier where Set, it would be a characteristic that it was Set without tribute. Which would lead one to believe that it couldn't be used for DDV's activation.
I guess I didn't explain myself so clearly =P, what I was trying to get to in my first post is that if the game can get "recognizition" and keep track of things, it can identify what the "status" of any monster is, in this case Fusilier Dragon.
novastar said:
Yes I agree it most likely cannot be used.
Another example that comes to mind is the all mighty disputed new Demise King of Armaggeddon... though this is a BKSS scenario, it seems that it doesn't get destroyed when flipped face-down because of the game "registering" it is still Demise... very weird situation indeed, but it is another example still.
masterwoo0 said:I thought it was pretty clear with all the consesus being that he is "1400" attack.
If my opponent activates Deck Devastation Virus, since I have a set without tribute Fusilier Dragon, I should be able to activate My Body as a Shield to negate and destroy Deck Devastation Virus because "I" know that he will be destroyed.QUOTE]
A face down monster is private knowledge to the controller of that monster. This also applies to any face down card on the field. You can only use My Body as a Shield to negate DDV if the destruction of a monster is public knowledge. If no public knowledge exists that a monster will be destroyed, then you can't activate My Body as a Shield. Very simple on that.
The private knowledge you have when you try and use a face down non-tributed Fusilier Dragon for DDV's cost is important. Private knowledge is what the Metamorphosis v.s. Soul Exchange issue was about. You can't tribute your opponent's face down monster because the level of their face down monster isn't public knowledge. Where as the information of Fusilier Dragon is private knowledge to you, the controller of both Fusilier and DDV, will know if you can use DDV or not with it.
This isn't really that hard to figure out.
You have private knowledge; knowledge or information of cards that only you can read, such as: your hand and face down cards on your field.
And you have public knowledge: knowledge or information of cards that both players can read, such as: face up cards, Graveyard, and Remove from play cards.
Like I said, isn't that hard to figure out. Just compare it to Metamorphosis v.s. Soul Exchange.
IMO, I could just be wrong or think it isn't that big of a deal. Usually I assume I'm 100% wrong automatically. Saves me a lot of pain killers from beating my head against the wall for not understanding something. XD
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
"¢ If your "Elemental Hero Flame Wingman" destroys a "Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast" that was Summoned without Tribute, inflict 2800 damage to your opponent's Life Points.
Doesnt say "original", and it specifically says "without tribute".
Elemental Hero Flame Wingman
Fusion Monster (Warrior / WIND / 6 Stars / ATK 2100 / DEF 1200)
"Elemental Hero Avian" + "Elemental Hero Burstinatrix"
This monster cannot be Special Summoned except by Fusion Summon. When this card destroys a monster as a result of battle and sends it to the Graveyard, inflict damage to your opponent's Life Points equal to the ATK of the destroyed monster.
Doesnt say "original", and it specifically says "without tribute".
Elemental Hero Flame Wingman
Fusion Monster (Warrior / WIND / 6 Stars / ATK 2100 / DEF 1200)
"Elemental Hero Avian" + "Elemental Hero Burstinatrix"
This monster cannot be Special Summoned except by Fusion Summon. When this card destroys a monster as a result of battle and sends it to the Graveyard, inflict damage to your opponent's Life Points equal to the ATK of the destroyed monster.
Well it is a Graveyard Trigger.
It is implied that a monster reverts back to original printed stats once placed in the Graveyard.
I was trying to look for the ruling fiasco stating that Fusilier remains at 1400/1000 when placed in the Graveyard, but couldn't find it.
It is implied that a monster reverts back to original printed stats once placed in the Graveyard.
I was trying to look for the ruling fiasco stating that Fusilier remains at 1400/1000 when placed in the Graveyard, but couldn't find it.
Dillie-O
Council of Heroes
An interesting little tidbit to consider. I pulled this from another forum I was in regarding this issue and it was rather recent...
I asked Kevin Tewart about this at SJ Long Beach and he said it checks the ATK of the card in the graveyard. He told me Fusilier always works, while TER never does.
So does that mean I've been playing things wrong when I've used my trumped up Goblin Kings or my Dark Jeroid with an Axe of Despair equipped to it as tribute for DDV?
I asked Kevin Tewart about this at SJ Long Beach and he said it checks the ATK of the card in the graveyard. He told me Fusilier always works, while TER never does.
So does that mean I've been playing things wrong when I've used my trumped up Goblin Kings or my Dark Jeroid with an Axe of Despair equipped to it as tribute for DDV?