Fusilier Dragon, The Dual-Mode Beast

J

Jack-Wyler

New Member
Hello all ,

I would like to know if Fusilier Dragon, The Dual-Mode Beast's original attack strengh was 1400 or 2800 when it is summoned without tribute .
Because my oppenent equipped it with Megamorph and said that its attack become 5600 because its original attack strengh was 2800 but however it is written on the card that THE ORIGINAL ATTACK would become halved when it is summoned without tribute

Can you help me ?

p.s: excuse my english , I am a French guy
 
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netwt said:
So are we talking about the same thing? When I refer to our opinions I'm talking about us expressing, and making our words at list valuable for us, don't care if Konami give it self the opportunity to know if who play the game are actually living, and intellectual people. To me UDE have to much to say in the game actually because is the only company we have contact, and the fact that we have Kenjiblade and Kevin in the Forum can take our opinions to the company. Isn't UDE the one company that make the Rulings official for us? I don't know to much about the roles Konami, UDE, Empyre Grups, are playing for now in the TCG.
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I think Dia may have misunderstood you on that one. :D

But to clear up some thing, Konami makes the rulings and expexts UDE to enforce 'em. Or something like that. You know, now that I think about it, I have no idea what UDE does other then distribute.
 
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Which forum is this? Konami don't tend to browse any of these forums that I know of, UDE staff do; e.g. here we have Kenjiblade, Realms has Kevin, but UDE doesn't really have that much say in the game.
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Yes they do. They have the power of the Annoying Complaints.

Fear the Annoying Complaints!

Oh, we have Kenjiblade? I couldn't tell, blinded by all my complaints to him about not posting enough. >_>

The problem's not so much that people make mistakes with the card text but rather that the Japanese creators & Konami are so stubborn when it comes to allowing the English text to be changed so that it actually means what it's supposed to as opposed to being a literal translation, Kevin has to fight tooth and nail for most erratas as I understand it when many of them are simple little things which should have been done before the card was even released in English.
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Because just about whenever they try, someone messes up.

A few examples of cards put on the Errata page just because they tried to translate according to rulings.

Blast with Chain
(Legacy of Darkness)
After activation, this card is treated as an Equip Card that increases the ATK of the equipped monster by 500 points. Equip a monster on your side of the field with this card. If this card is destroyed by the effect of another card while it is an Equip Card, select 1 card on the field and destroy it.

Change of Heart
(Metal Raiders, Starter Decks: Yugi, Joey, Pegasus, Yugi Evolution, Kaiba Evolution, Dark Beginning 1)
Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. Take control of the selected monster until the End Phase of this turn.

Gearfried the Iron Knight
(Pharaoh's Servant, Starter Deck Joey, 2003 Collector's Tins, Dark Beginning 1)
When an Equip Card is equipped to this card, destroy the Equip Card.

Armed Ninja
(Legend of Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Starter Deck Pegasus, Dark Beginning 1)
FLIP: Select 1 Spell Card on the field and destroy it. If the selected card is Set, pick up and see the card. If it is a Spell Card, it is destroyed. If it is a Trap Card, return it to its original position.

Exiled Force
(Legacy of Darkness)
Tribute this face-up card. Destroy 1 monster on the field.

Just a few.
 
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I'm feeling abandoned, you know to go back to the Fusilier theme we have a discussion going on here, and it's not about who guess the correct ruling, it's about trying to make this new monsters effect get sense in the game, and we don't have the proper back up from the company that take it out. The community can demand they to do something about this, because any one know the instruction manual have to be always provided when you bought a product. It's this to much to ask? To tell us how to use their product, and if we have a disagreement to have the right to be listened, and attended, the company should be more aware to accept their mistakes. And correct them. Not just "Complaints"
 
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netwt said:
So are we talking about the same thing? When I refer to our opinions I'm talking about us expressing, and making our words at list valuable for us, don't care if Konami give it self the opportunity to know if who play the game are actually living, and intellectual people. To me UDE have to much to say in the game actually because is the only company we have contact, and the fact that we have Kenjiblade and Kevin in the Forum can take our opinions to the company. Isn't UDE the one company that make the Rulings official for us? I don't know to much about the roles Konami, UDE, Empyre Grups, are playing for now in the TCG.
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Sorry thought you meant having your oppinions listened to by Konami. But in short UDE just distribute the cards and rulings handed down by Konami (though one or two recent ones seem to have no basis on the Konami end) and advertise through media and tours & tournaments.
City of Gamers (here) is a volunteer based community which allows for mass online discussion of rulings and the game in general so that we can all learn from others and then hopefully pass on that knowledge ourselves. There's also the software development aspect (e.g. RONIN) to make both the Tournament and casual game scene better organised and easier for the players and tournament staff.

Raijinili said:
Because just about whenever they try, someone messes up.

A few examples of cards put on the Errata page just because they tried to translate according to rulings.

Blast with Chain
(Legacy of Darkness)
After activation, this card is treated as an Equip Card that increases the ATK of the equipped monster by 500 points. Equip a monster on your side of the field with this card. If this card is destroyed by the effect of another card while it is an Equip Card, select 1 card on the field and destroy it.

Change of Heart
(Metal Raiders, Starter Decks: Yugi, Joey, Pegasus, Yugi Evolution, Kaiba Evolution, Dark Beginning 1)
Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. Take control of the selected monster until the End Phase of this turn.

Gearfried the Iron Knight
(Pharaoh's Servant, Starter Deck Joey, 2003 Collector's Tins, Dark Beginning 1)
When an Equip Card is equipped to this card, destroy the Equip Card.

Armed Ninja
(Legend of Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Starter Deck Pegasus, Dark Beginning 1)
FLIP: Select 1 Spell Card on the field and destroy it. If the selected card is Set, pick up and see the card. If it is a Spell Card, it is destroyed. If it is a Trap Card, return it to its original position.

Exiled Force
(Legacy of Darkness)
Tribute this face-up card. Destroy 1 monster on the field.

Just a few.
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The only one of those that I see a problem with is Blast with Chain as it's rather awkwardly worded, the text doesn't have to be breathtaking and inspiring, it just has to convey what the card does.
 
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Raijinili said:
If the game was simple, I wouldn't have been interested.
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Yay!! Darn tootin right.

Still, this is an issue that should be addressed in some form by our authoratative magistrative omnipotent distributing creators*, before someone takes this issue to a tournament, and then someone else, and so on..

*I wanted to use a lot of ten dollar words, after having said "tootin" out loud.:p
 
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Raijinili said:
If the game was simple, I wouldn't have been interested.
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Well, there's a difference between simple, as in easy, and simple, as in clear. Theres no doubt that clarity in this game wouldn not take away from its complexity.
 
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if things were clear and simple, yes, it might take a lot of stress off. But, then, I might never have met such interesting characters as yourself:) Its that old "every cloud has a silver lining" saying. And no matter how hard it rains, ...the fish like it.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Well, there's a difference between simple, as in easy, and simple, as in clear. Theres no doubt that clarity in this game wouldn not take away from its complexity.
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If everyone understood rulings, I wouldn't have anything to do. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

daivahataka, each of those are the ERRATA.

Change of Heart
(Metal Raiders, Starter Decks: Yugi, Joey, Pegasus, Yugi Evolution, Kaiba Evolution, Dark Beginning 1)
Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. Take control of the selected monster until the End Phase of this turn.
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Originally changed because someone thought that "end of turn" was the same as "End Phase". The Japanese card originally said "End Phase".
Gearfried the Iron Knight
(Pharaoh's Servant, Starter Deck Joey, 2003 Collector's Tins, Dark Beginning 1)
When an Equip Card is equipped to this card, destroy the Equip Card.
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Originally changed because someone thought "Equip Magic Card" was the only type of "Equip Card". Japanese text said "Equipment Card".
Armed Ninja
(Legend of Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Starter Deck Pegasus, Dark Beginning 1)
FLIP: Select 1 Spell Card on the field and destroy it. If the selected card is Set, pick up and see the card. If it is a Spell Card, it is destroyed. If it is a Trap Card, return it to its original position.
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Changed because someone thought it didn't fit the rulings. The original Japanese text simply said "Destroy one Magic Card on the field".
Exiled Force
(Legacy of Darkness)
Tribute this face-up card. Destroy 1 monster on the field.
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Remember the original TCG text? That was why it was changed back to the original Japanese text.
 
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ejemjmjm..........

Sorry for breaking the subject here, but I got some questions regarding the fusilier dragon and Megamorph issue here.

Scenario:

Player A activates Limiter Removal to his 2800 fusilier dragon, and later, he activates Megamorph. Does Megamorph cancels the effect of Limiter Removal?. And if it does, it includes the secondary effect of destroying the monster at the end phase?.

Now:

Player A activate Megamorph to equip fusilier dragon when his life points are lower than player B. Then, he plays Limiter Removal. The fact that Megamorph is already equipped does not allow Limiter Removal to resolve properly?
 
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paladinforce said:
ejemjmjm..........

Sorry for breaking the subject here, but I got some questions regarding the fusiller dragon and Megamorph issue here.

Scenario:

Player A activates Limiter Removal to his 2800 fusiller dragon, and later, he activates Megamorph. Does Megamorph cancels the effect of Limiter Removal?. And if it does, it includes the secondary effect of destroying the monster at the end phase?.

Now:

Player A activate Megamorph to equip fusiller dragon when his life points are lower than player B. Then, he plays Limiter Removal. The fact that Megamorph is already equipped does not allow Limiter Removal to resolve properly?
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part 1: If Limiter Removal is doubling the attack, and Megamorph later comes and doubles the original attack, then Megamorph isnt concerned with whatever boost Limiter provided. It isnt canceling anything. The destruction effect of Limiter Removal would still take place. If you wanted to quadruple the effect of Fusilier, then equip Megamorph first, followed by Limiter. (Do not chain though, as Limiter would resolve first).

Part 2:
If you read part 1, you can see that Megamorph still does not "negate" anything. Megamorph simply sets its effect based off of the original attack. Since Limiter is doing the same thing, the 2 effects would be based off of one stat, when resolving the effect of Limiter first, Megamorph second. But, since Limiter Removal is doubling the "current" attack, not the original, it can indeed double the "current" attack provided by a boosted Megamorph. But only so long as Megamorph has fully resolved before Limiter Removal.

Now, you notice I keep referring to original attack and current, rather than using the actual 2800 or 1400 atk values of Fusilier. That's because the heart of this discussion is deciphering which is the mechanically correct "original" attack, based off of the rulings provided earlier.

think of it like trying to equip Twin Flashing Swords-Tryce to Mataza the Zapper. both effects allow your Mataza to attack twice. Does that mean he attacks 4 times? No. Only twice.
 
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Ok, Thanks for your detailed explanation.

Now, if a player activates Megamorph to fusilier dragon, and later he activates Limiter Removal to it current attack, fusilier dragon would be 11200 ATK. Right?

well, in this scenario, considering that this guy haves, let's see... 7000 LP, and the opponent haves 9000. When the player with the all boosted up fusilier dragon attacks directly, the opponent activates Wall of Revealing Light and pays 8000, so his life points would drop to 1000. Can still the attack of fusilier dragon resolves?.The attack of fusilier dragon would still remain the same, or would drop to half because now the player controlling fusilier dragon has more LP than his opponent?. How we resolve this matter?
 
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Wow, I little bit odd to resolve thought, I could imagine this scenario hapenning in a tourney, and the judge's brain shred to pieces. This kind of dilemas is what I look for when reading the Netrep files.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Fusilier Dragon's attack would become 1400,

Limiter Removal doesn;t negate the equip cards: (For example if a United We Stand was involved, and a mosnter was summoned the attack would further increase by 800)

Since Megamorph affects original attack it is able to bump ahead, so when there's a change in the lifepoint leader, its affect reapplies.
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Actually, Limiter Removal locks all effects on the monster. So you couldn't change the stats by summoning another monster.
 
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Hello , here is Jack-Wyler.

I have known that my post would be more difficult that it looked in a first time lol.
I could not read all the pages of the topic (I remind you that I am French , so traslate 11 pages is a lot of work :)).
So now am I right or wrong? I want to know .:p

See you later.
 
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Raijinili said:
That link disagrees with you. Unless you actually meant a United We Stand that was played AFTER Limiter Removal?

As for the original question, 1400 is the original attack.
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Keep reading:

  • Example 3: (Continuation of Example 1)

    "Cannon Soldier" is now at 4800 after having its ATK doubled by "Limiter
    Removal" and it is still equipped with the "Mage Power."

    The player Sets a Trap Card. By putting another Trap Card onto the field
    "Mage Power" kicks "Cannon Soldier's" ATK up an additional 500 points.
    This ATK increase is not doubled by "Limiter Removal."

    4800 + 500 = 5300 ATK.
 
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