Fusilier Dragon, The Dual-Mode Beast

J

Jack-Wyler

New Member
Hello all ,

I would like to know if Fusilier Dragon, The Dual-Mode Beast's original attack strengh was 1400 or 2800 when it is summoned without tribute .
Because my oppenent equipped it with Megamorph and said that its attack become 5600 because its original attack strengh was 2800 but however it is written on the card that THE ORIGINAL ATTACK would become halved when it is summoned without tribute

Can you help me ?

p.s: excuse my english , I am a French guy
 
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skey23 said:
OR, it's now a new clarification of things, or as stated previously, a new type of effect that does INDEED modify/'redefine' the original ATK/DEF of that monster.

Since there are now only 5 monsters that use the text "the original ATK/DEF becomes", or very similar, this could very well be the case.

"Fusilier"
"Behemoth Beast King"
"King of Skull Servants"
"Lost Guardian"
"Mega-Rock Dragon"


Just my thoughts on it!
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Its very possible, from looking at how Megamorph reacts with cards like King of Skull Servant, that you might be able to include Megamorph itself on that list.

That still requires a more definitive statement than what we have currently.

If There were 2 classes of effects...:
-one that modifies a printed attack/defense, and in no way alters that base original attack/defense, only increases/decreases it.

and

-one that replaces the printed attack/defense with an effect that "becomes" the base original, no matter whether the card is on the field, hand, deck, Graveyard or RFP, and which only changes when circumstances of activation cause a triggering of the same effect. (ie: King of Skull Servants re-evaluating the # of SS and KoSS in the Grave)

...then
Megamorph would still function as it has always done. It would only become important for the judges and players to be aware that there is a distinction between the two types of monsters.

Similar to how there is a distinct class of monsters with an optional effect. Those kinds of monsters, who must be the last action in a chain to have their effects legally activated, have similar wording of the texts. The word "can"

In this case, it is the word "become"

[edit]: I am still naught but a padawan
 
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<stumbles into the room, sees Squid and Novastar talking />

<gasp/>

Oh my goodness! Squid, you've betrayed us for this, this, joker?! How could you?! Do I dare have to challenge you to the death to prove your Monarch honor?!

Nah, I followed Nova over to CoG too...he just doesn't know it yet 8^D
 
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novastar said:
Ah, darn text...
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And yes, I know we were told by Kevin not to take the text on the cards literally, but how can we not when the rulings seem to follow the same logic...sorta....maybe?

But yes, everyone that has mentioned it is correct that something is definitely wrong here with either the rulings or the card text.

But isn't that half the fun of this game anyway!...lol.
 
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I would like to take this time to apologize to Mr. Jack-Wyler, the initial postee of this thread. Who would have thought a seemingly simple question would become this giant beast of a discussion. But that's one of the joys of playing this game!...lol.
 
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I didnt think of Shield and Sword! That's interesting. Ill have to take that and Megamorph to a tourney and see who's eyes twitch.

Based on the ruling DaguywitBluGlasses provided earlier, concerning how Flame Wingman reacts vs. Fusilier, I would lean towards putting it in group 4. Otherwise a new current ATK/DEF, as played by Megamorph and Karate Man, would not show up when determining damage for the effect of Wingman.
 
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Ha! If you think Jack-Wyler has problems, you should talk to a certain Gailsad over at Realms. His post in the Strategies Forum started a thread that is now at 150+ pages, and WELL over 2000 posts.

I think he once stated:
"STOP IT! STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!!"
 
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What about Goblin King and those kinds, those seem to be effects that create a new effect by a certain amount, do you think that fits into 3 or could that be in 4?

If I remember correctly, Goblin King gets reset every time it checks. So you can summon Dark Jeroid, lower his attack, and now Goblin King recalculates himself, going back to its original value, boosted by 1000 for the new fiend.

While I'm a little late into this game, I'd put my vote into 4, only because of the "become" text that is in front of the halved.
 
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squid said:
Ha! If you think Jack-Wyler has problems, you should talk to a certain Gailsad over at Realms. His post in the Strategies Forum started a thread that is now at 150+ pages, and WELL over 2000 posts.

I think he once stated:
"STOP IT! STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!!"
Click to expand...
Also, this was Jack-Wyler's 2nd post.....I wonder why he hasn't posted anything else?...hmmm

Dillie-O said:
What about Goblin Kingand those kinds, those seem to be effects that create a new effect by a certain amount, do you think that fits into 3 or could that be in 4?
Click to expand...
Those kind do not 'redefine' the original ATK/DEF, they just add/subtract from it. They would be closer to either group 2 or group 1, since it is increments of a fixed amount that their ATK/DEF get modified by.
 
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Ok lets reevaluate this:

1.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which "increase" or "decrease" by a fixed amount.

Examples include, Axe of Despair, Rush Recklessly and Blast with Chain.

2.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which "half" or "double" current ATK/DEF.

Examples include Limiter Removal and Mirror Wall.

3.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which "become" the new current ATK/DEF based on a calculation or fixed amount.

Examples include Goblin King and Chaos Necromancer.

4.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which physically change the original ATK/DEF into a new original ATK/DEF.

Examples include King of the Skull Servants, Megamorph, Karate Man and possibly Shield & Sword.

The problem lies in the incosistancy in Group 4. As some of the effects simply overlap and are Timestamp resolved (Megamorph) and some are able to be stacked on (King of Skull Servants).
 
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novastar said:
Ok lets reevaluate this:

1.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which "increase" or "decrease" by a fixed amount.

Examples include, Axe of Despair, Rush Recklessly and Blast with Chain.

2.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which "half" or "double" current ATK/DEF.

Examples include Limiter Removal and Mirror Wall.

3.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which "become" the new current ATK/DEF based on a calculation or fixed amount.

Examples include Goblin King and Chaos Necromancer.

4.) ATK/DEF Modifiers which physically change the original ATK/DEF into a new original ATK/DEF.

Examples include King of the Skull Servants, Megamorph, Karate Man and possibly Shield & Sword.
Click to expand...
Now #4 is wrong!

You are only doubling or halving the original ATK/DEF, you are not 'redefining' them.

The 5 monsters I have listed 'redefine' their original ATK/DEF via their effect. THAT'S the main difference here!....
 
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Ok lets seperate 4 into 2 groups then:

4.) ATK/DEF Modifiers that "half" or "double" original ATK/DEF into a new original ATK/DEF

Examples Megamorph and Karate Man

5.) ATK/DEF Modifiers 'redefine' the original ATK/DEF to "become" a new original ATK/DEF by either a calculation or fixed amount.

Examples include King of the Skull Servants (and the others listed).

The question is, does Fusilier either fits into 4 or 5, because it both "halves" and "becomes".

There is a very weird inconsistancy here for sure...
 
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novastar said:
If Megamorph is equipped, the ATK generated by it, is considered by outside effects and the game as the original ATK. The actual number on the card becomes irrelevent according to the ruling.
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Which is why I think the ruling is wrong. If thats the case, then #4 doesn't even exist.
 
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