Gearfried vs. Blast with Chain in Damage Step

Y

ygo doc

New Member
Thanks to mws16, Gearfried Deck's are becoming popular these days.

How do you rule?
Turn player special summons Cyber Dragon and then normal summons Cyber Phoenix. TP selects Cyber Dragon to attack opponent's face-up attack position Gearfried the Iron Knight. Battle Step - no chains. During Damage Step, the NTP activates Blast with Chain equipping it to his Gearfried. No further chains. There are no other cards on either player's Field.

How do you proceed with this scenario?

doc
 
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If I'm not mistaken, continuous effects apply after damage calculation (a la "Spirit Reaper")
UDE FAQ said:
"¢ If "Spirit Reaper" is destroyed by its effect during the Damage Step, such as if "Rush Recklessly" was activated to increase its ATK, destroy "Spirit Reaper" with its effect AFTER damage calculation.
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so "Blast with Chain" will equip to "Gearfried the Iron Knight". His effect will destroy "Blast with Chain" but it will not be destroyed until after damage calculation, so his ATK will raise to 2300 and and "Cyber Dragon" will be destroyed and sent to the Graveyard by battle, inflicting 200 points of damage to the attacker's Life Points. Then "Blast with Chain" will be destroyed and it's effect will activate. A card on the field must now be destroyed. "Cyber Phoenix" is a valid target, but its effect will negate "Blast with Chain". However, since you probably don't want to destroy your own monster, you would probably still select "Cyber Phoenix" and let it be negated.

That's the way I would rule...

P.S.- Hasn't this situation or one similar to it already been debated?
 
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Seems pretty straightforward to me. Blast effect pops off of Gearfried, targets one of the monsters and the effect is negated. Cyber Dragon will destroy Gearfired in battle. Am I missing something?
 
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Kyhotae said:
Nope. Common mistake. It's a continuous effect.
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For now, as Kyhotae has stated, considered Gearfried's effect as continuous.

I did ask and have been told that official comment from Konami has not been received. I consider this an important issue though because I have had a few duelists want to use Divine Wrath on Gearfried the Iron Knight and unless its effect is ruled a trigger effect, that's not possible.

doc
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Seems pretty straightforward to me. Blast effect pops off of Gearfried, targets one of the monsters and the effect is negated. Cyber Dragon will destroy Gearfired in battle. Am I missing something?
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When I first ruled on this situation, I also thought it was straightforward. Unfortunately, the first 2 replies to my question already have different answers.

I have my own opinion, but I'm looking for others first.

doc
 
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ygo doc said:
For now, as Kyhotae has stated, considered Gearfried's effect as continuous.

I did ask and have been told that official comment from Konami has not been received. I consider this an important issue though because I have had a few duelists want to use Divine Wrath on Gearfried the Iron Knight and unless its effect is ruled a trigger effect, that's not possible.

doc
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I also consider it a very important issue since there is still evidence of being a trigger effect.
 
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For now, Gearfried the Iron Knight is considered a continuous effect.

As for the whole mechanic, this was something that I was just debating over with several people (from the incorrect point of view). However this is what I was told.

Trigger effects that activate during the damage calculation sub-step that can normally activate elsewhere (so this will separate out effects like Kinetic Soldier battling a Warrior type) will not resolve until after damage calculation has resolved.

So in the case of Cyber Dragon vs. Gearfried, if you wait til Damage Calculation to activate Blast with Chain, Gearfried's effect will destroy Blast with Chain (since it's continuous). Cyber Dragon will then destroy Gearfried (as a result of battle). Then Blast with Chain will resolve and you can pick one card to destroy so in this instance, it's better to do it before damage calculation.

The other type of effect that won't resolve until after damage calculation are the self-destruct effects (like Spirit Reaper).

And before anyone debates me, wait til Simon (Key) shows up again and you can debate him. Thanks.
 
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So, how is "Gearfried the Iron Knight's" continuous effect destroying "Blast with Chain" immediately during damage calculation, but "Spirit Reaper's" continuous effect doesn't destroy him until after damage calculation?
 
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Kyhotae said:
So, how is "Gearfried the Iron Knight's" continuous effect destroying "Blast with Chain" immediately during damage calculation, but "Spirit Reaper's" continuous effect doesn't destroy him until after damage calculation?
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Let's see... I will quote myself:
densetsu_x said:
The other type of effect that won't resolve until after damage calculation are the self-destruct effects (like Spirit Reaper).
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That is a BKSS ruling.

Digital Jedi said:
Damage Calculation? Isn't ygo doc's example taking place in the Damage Step?
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Damage Calculation is a sub-step within the Damage Step.
 
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I realize that, but generally when we talk about Damage Calculation, we're talking about a whole different animal. Which is why when we generally don't specify, we're not talking about Damage Calculation.
 
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If you're talking about "Blast with Chain" and "Damage Step" in the same sentence, there's only 1 time when it can be activated: the Damage Calculation Sub-Step. Hence why I got more specific here.
 
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densetsu_x said:
If you're talking about "Blast with Chain" and "Damage Step" in the same sentence, there's only 1 time when it can be activated: the Damage Calculation Sub-Step. Hence why I got more specific here.
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Not true. Blast with Chain has NO specific timing requirements and may be activated in other phases, including substeps such as Battle Step.

Because it alters ATK/DEF, it can be activated during Damage Step and specifically during Damage Calculation substep. This is where the ruling on Gearfried may be different than at other times, such as Battle Step. Do you apply the ATK increase and finish Damage Calculation as with Spirit Reaper, or do you not apply the ATK increase?

doc
 
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From what we've heard ( for example, on Raigekick's Battle Phase article here in this forum ), it looks like continuous effects apply immediately unless they involve destruction of MONSTERS.

This makes sense in order to avoid situations in which the attacking or the deffending monsters disappears during the Damage Step (when there is no attack stopping, no replays, no nothing ).

Gearfried's effect does not destroy any monster, just the equip card. Assuming it's a continuous effect, I see no reason for it to wait for damage calculation.

Blast With Chain's effect, on the other hand, triggers when it's destroyed, but like other trigger or flip effects, will probably resolve in the " Resolve Effects" part of the Damage Step.

So, in short, I believe densetsu_x's answer is correct.

Thanks

Carlos
 
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So, in short, I believe densetsu_x's answer is correct.

Does that mean that the damage calculation takes effect BEFORE Blast with a Chain's effect resolves and Cyber Dragon is destroyed or does Gearfried's "continous" effect take precedence and destroys Blast before damage calculation takes place?
 
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Being a continuous effect, Gearfried will destroy Blast with Chain immediately after BwC's resolution. However, BwC's effect will not activate/resolve until after damage calculation has resolved (since that's the trigger effect).
 
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Cyber Dragon attacks.

In damage step, Blast with Chain is activated, and equipped to Gearfried the Iron Knight, giving it +500 ATK.

Gearfried's effect activates, and destroys Blast with Chain. Gearfriend loses the +500 ATK bonus.

Apply Battle Damage: Gearfried is destroyed by battle, and Gearfried's controller loses 300 Life Points.

Then the effect of Blast with Chain activates, and destroys 1 card on the field.
 
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