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Staying with "BoM" here.

Let's say your opponent has "Jinzo" on the field summoned from his Last Turn and you have "Archfiend Soldier" and a set "BoM". Your opponent attacks with "Jinzo" so you "BoM" him so you can kill him with your "Archfiend Soldier" on your turn.

NOT ANYMORE!! If your opponent is paying attention and knows this new info, then they know they can Flip Summon their "Jinzo" in Main Phase 2 to keep it alive!

That sucks.
 
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Ahhh SHAFT! And I was just getting the concept down of manual vs. effect position changes, when you could do them, and how the "re-flippers" work.

Hmm, so does that mean if my opponent attacks my Guardian Sphinx during Main Phase 2 (a popular tactic I used), I can now flip him down Main Phase 1 via his effect and then flip summon him to give the bounce?

EDIT: You phrased it best...."It's begun....At last we will reveal ourselves to the mechaincs. At last we will have revenge."

<queue John Williams' "Duel of the Fate" or other appropritate Apocalyptic music here... />
 
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The 're-flippers' should still work almost the same as before.

Remember, they can only use their effect to flip face-down once per turn.

The only change I can see regarding the 're-flippers' is the original position of the card will no longer be a factor on whether or not you can Flip Summon it after using it's effect.

i.e. face-up attack to face-down defense. As it stands right now, you CANNOT flip summon that card this same turn. As it will be as of MONDAY, you CAN flip summon that card this same turn, but you CANNOT use it's effect to flip it back face-down again since you've already used it once this turn.
 
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Dillie-O said:
Hmm, so does that mean if my opponent attacks my Guardian Sphinx during Main Phase 2 (a popular tactic I used), I can now flip him down Main Phase 1 via his effect and then flip summon him to give the bounce?
Click to expand...

You could already do that:

Face-down is not a position, face-up defense to face-down defense is not a position change: you have always been able to flip summon Sphinx after switching it from Face-Up defense to face-down defense
 
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well, actually, the opponent shouldn't be attacking during Main Phase 2..

...but that's just a technicality, right?:p

I dont see a huge problem mechanically, though. it will take time to disseminate this info and process it mentally. But, all its saying is that effects that change position are not manual position changes(ie: done by the player) The most confusing passage was the one dealing with Cyber Jar.

It will be fun to hear from exiledforcefreak after he reexamines his Secret Barrel/Cyber Jar OTK deck, though.
 
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skey23 said:
The 're-flippers' should still work almost the same as before.

Remember, they can only use their effect to flip face-down once per turn.

The only change I can see regarding the 're-flippers' is the original position of the card will no longer be a factor on whether or not you can Flip Summon it after using it's effect.

i.e. face-up attack to face-down defense. As it stands right now, you CANNOT flip summon that card this same turn. As it will be as of MONDAY, you CAN flip summon that card this same turn, but you CANNOT use it's effect to flip it back face-down again since you've already used it once this turn.
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This has always been the issue with me. I always felt this is the way they should have worked to begin with. It made no sense to me for an effect position change to "burn" your manual position change for the turn. The Guardian Sphinx entry in the Advance Rules never really said that clearly enough to make any sense.
 
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A "manual" change can only be performed during your Main Phase 1 or 2. There are
3 exceptions that will prevent you from "manually" changing a monster's battle
position:
Exception #1: You cannot "manually" change the battle position of a monster if it
declared an attack that turn (even if the attack was negated or a replay occurred).

Exception #2: You cannot "manually" change the battle position of a monster if it
was Summoned or Set that turn by the turn player.

Exception #3: You cannot "manually" change the battle position of a monster if its
battle position was already changed "manually" that turn (including if it was Flip
Summoned).


you guys did read that right?

with MOF that only means you will be doing it 1 time, the same 1 time we have always been able to do it, only know we can do it from face up attack position.

what is the crazy part was that of Cyber Jar.

exception number 2 is what lets you Change of Heart or Mind Control and then change its position.

the thing now is that we must remember the 3 exception.

its not that bad, but i see it as it complete changed they way battle positions are taken cared off.

the not being scared of Cyber Jar / Change of Heart / Mind Control combo is now longer a thing to not be scared.

i see this as forcefully making your opponent no longer put their monsters in defense mode unless they want some effects to be taken.

really crazy is how i see it. but its not effective till june 6 so till then. lets just study these new rules.
 
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skey23 said:
Staying with "BoM" here.

Let's say your opponent has "Jinzo" on the field summoned from his Last Turn and you have "Archfiend Soldier" and a set "BoM". Your opponent attacks with "Jinzo" so you "BoM" him so you can kill him with your "Archfiend Soldier" on your turn.

NOT ANYMORE!! If your opponent is paying attention and knows this new info, then they know they can Flip Summon their "Jinzo" in Main Phase 2 to keep it alive!

That sucks.
Click to expand...


wouldnt exception 1 take place here? or because the monster if flipped fd it doesnt apply?
Exception #1: You cannot “manually” change the battle position of a monster if it
declared an attack that turn (even if the attack was negated or a replay occurred)
Click to expand...

Dan put the next batch up
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=5199
 
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Bigred Blues said:
wouldnt exception 1 take place here? or because the monster if flipped fd it doesnt apply?
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You are correct, I was in such a rush to post that I didn't even pay attention to that fact.

Yes, in my scenario with "Jinzo", since it attacked it would not be able to be Flip Summoned that same turn due to Exception 1, and the fact a Flip Summon is a Manual position change.


Thanks for correcting me!
 
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woah! did you guys read the D. D. Warrior Lady effect?

that completly makes Priority in this face useless since Priority leads to having your effects become link one of a chain.

which if we remember before the ruling for Warrior Lady vs. Wall was because Wall of Illusion came in as link 2 of the chain.

what happend here. can somebody explain how is it that a manditory effect comes before the Optional effect?
 
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Its a segoc:

This is the order they get placed onto the chain:

1. Turn Player Mandatory Triggers
2. Opponent MAndatory Triggers
3. Turn Player Optional Triggers
4. Opponent Optional Triggers

As you can see, turn player controled effects still get placed before opponent's effects, but only if their both the same type of trigger.
 
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skey23 said:
Staying with "BoM" here.

Let's say your opponent has "Jinzo" on the field summoned from his Last Turn and you have "Archfiend Soldier" and a set "BoM". Your opponent attacks with "Jinzo" so you "BoM" him so you can kill him with your "Archfiend Soldier" on your turn.

NOT ANYMORE!! If your opponent is paying attention and knows this new info, then they know they can Flip Summon their "Jinzo" in Main Phase 2 to keep it alive!

That sucks.
Click to expand...

Um, if your opponent has Jinzo on the field, how can they activate Last Turn? Remember, it's only you who special summons from your deck in that situation, they choose one of their monsters that are already on the field.

Secondly, if Last Turn could be activated in that situation, wouldn't the duel end in a draw at the end of the turn if both monsters are still on the field?


John Danker said:
and people thought these were going to be "minor" changes to wording :D
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Not me. From the advance warning we were given, I thought it was pretty abvious that the changes would be fairly large. Although I am still hoping for a clarification of nomi monsters to be a part of the changes.:cool:
 
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jpnuar1 said:
Not me. From the advance warning we were given, I thought it was pretty abvious that the changes would be fairly large. Although I am still hoping for a clarification of nomi monsters to be a part of the changes.:cool:
Click to expand...


What clarification do you need?

Cards that have been erratad/printed as having, "This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by...," mean that the effect is THE ONLY way to Special Summon it. No Monster Reborn. No Return from the Different Dimension. No Normal Summon or Set. This generally covers monsters released in/after Magician's Force (MFC).

Cards that are worded to say, "This card can only be Special Summoned by..." means that in order for you to Special Summon it using Monster Reborn, etc., you MUST do what the card effect says. This mainly covers monsters from before Magician's Force and do include Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning and Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End.


What other clarification do you need? I'm sorry if I sound like I'm treating you like an idiot, but to me it's like, "What clarification do you need? It's self-explanatory except for the older monsters, and once you memorize the ruling for one you memorized them all."
 
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jpnuar1 said:
Um, if your opponent has Jinzo on the field, how can they activate Last Turn? Remember, it's only you who special summons from your deck in that situation, they choose one of their monsters that are already on the field.

Secondly, if Last Turn could be activated in that situation, wouldn't the duel end in a draw at the end of the turn if both monsters are still on the field?
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I may be mistaken jpnuar, but I belive that skye23 was merely a victim of the auto linking and not speaking of the Trap Card Last Turn, but about a Jinzo summoned from the last turn.

That said it was also relized that the Jinzo in question couldn't be fipped summoned on that scenario becasue it had already attacked this turn.

That said, I'm not an authority on Last Turn, but a Jinzo summoned from the effect of Last Turn wouldn't be able to negate it as it would have already resolved


Not me. From the advance warning we were given, I thought it was pretty abvious that the changes would be fairly large. Although I am still hoping for a clarification of nomi monsters to be a part of the changes.:cool:
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What clarification is that? Just look for the words "cannot" and "except". Non-nomis do not use these two words together in thier Special Summoning conditions.
 
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