Jinzo and RFTDD

[ChaosMachine]

If Jinzo is one of the monsters special summoned by return from the different dimension will he negate them being removed from play at the end of the turn?

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Card Destruction
Normal Spell
You and your opponent discard your entire hands and draw the same number of cards from your respective Decks that you discarded.


See, it's telling YOU and YOUR OPPONENT to discard the cards. Therefore if one of the player's discards a Dark World MOnster, it will NOT be summoned.

Dark World monsters only get their effects when discarded by a card effect, and PLAYERS are not card effects so they can't possibly be summoned in this case.

*sigh*

 

[novastar]

um....you are you being sarcastic right?

 

[Digital Jedi]

<laffin> Oh we're going to include the cartoon in on a debate of rulings now? THIS should get interesting!

I can't remember once one of the monsters speaking...though I must admit I don't watch the cartoon nearly as often as I judge <smirk> To the best of my recollection a declaration is to state formally or officially....I don't ever remember Blue Eyes White Dragon or Celtic Guardian telling their opponnent that they're attacking do you?

Nope. But I do remember Yugi and Obnoxious Celtic Gaurdian jumping out of the way of an attacking monster and Yugi asked Celtic if he was alright? :silly_jedi

 

[John Danker]

Nope. But I do remember Yugi and Obnoxious Celtic Gaurdian jumping out of the way of an attacking monster and Yugi asked Celtic if he was alright? :silly_jedi

Did Celtic Guardian reply? <concerned now>
Wait, we're talking about a guy who talks to his ancient alter ego....nevermind...I don't want to know.

 

[roadhouse007]

back on topic......

Returning Jinzo doesn't stop Return from removing these monsters at the end of the turn, but 2 things I want to put on this thread (for my own personal reference to show those who say I'm lying, for the most part)

1) If Return brings Jinzo back to the field, any traps to resolve after Return would be negated, just like Call of the Haunted Jinzo does.

2) D.D. Survivors get removed at the end of the turn, and then come streight back due to their own effects if summoned by Return.

Agree?

 

[John Danker]

Correct on both questions roadhouse.

 

[Jason_C]

um....you are you being sarcastic right?

He's saying that cards can be worded to say that a player does something, but it's still a card, NOT a player. A player doesn't attack anymore than a player discards their hand.

-pssvr

 

[squid]

He's saying that cards can be worded to say that a player does something, but it's still a card, NOT a player. A player doesn't attack anymore than a player discards their hand.

-pssvr

Uhh....you sure you want to phrase it that way, pssvr?

I believe what DaGuy~ was referring to was the ability of a card effect to trigger from the hand, when the "player" was mentioned as discarding, not the monster being discarded

btw, with all the cartoony references, I am having these disturbing images of the old Toon monsters that Pegasus summoned sitting there giggling and stuff. Creeps me out.

 

[John Danker]

squid....did you by chance have disturbing childhood experiences with C L O W N S? <sinister laugh> Boohahahahaha!

 

[squid]

only that one clown I set fire to. But it was an accident......I swear! I was only like 3 years old.

 

[Jason_C]

Uhh....you sure you want to phrase it that way, pssvr?

I believe what DaGuy~ was referring to was the ability of a card effect to trigger from the hand, when the "player" was mentioned as discarding, not the monster being discarded

btw, with all the cartoony references, I am having these disturbing images of the old Toon monsters that Pegasus summoned sitting there giggling and stuff. Creeps me out.

Card Destruction tells PLAYERS to discard their hands. Yet, as we all know, it is the EFFECT of Card Destruction that discards them, NOT a person. That is what DaGuy and I were saying. As usual, I phrased it poorly.

-pssvr

PS Clpwns pwn U

 

[squid]

exactly. But that is the same dilemma that is occuring on certain discussions about how Threatening Roar is currently phrased. Text and effect are running parallel...but...they just dont quite touch.

Technically, I pwn clowns Don't make me go get my matches.

 

[John Danker]

Card Destruction tells PLAYERS to discard their hands. Yet, as we all know, it is the EFFECT of Card Destruction that discards them, NOT a person. That is what DaGuy and I were saying. As usual, I phrased it poorly.

-pssvr

PS Clpwns pwn U

No matter how one tries to justify it ...the player discards the cards. Card Destrution tells the player to discard the cards. I don't see the card named Card Destruction walking over, taking your hand from you, and placing them in the graveyard.....how the rules of the game view this may sometimes be contrary to my statement obviously....but when reality strikes....nevermind I said that, this is a game based on a cartoon and comic book character....it has nothing to do with reality!

 

[novastar]

No, the effect is causing the discard event. The players may be performing the action, but the effect is controlling the entire event, and it is still a discard "by card effect."

My concern was with the comments made by DaGuy stating that the DW monsters would not trigger from it, which infact they do...

 

[slither]

Can I add a little of my 2 cents in the whole "players do", "monsters do" issue, just something to came into mind a second ago.

If we get into real mechanics, players go into each phase do they not? DP, SBP, MP1, BP, MP2, EP. Now why is this relevant in any way?

If a card "effect" such as The Great Long Nose, Timeeater etc. prevents the player from entering their respective phases, what prevents any other cards effect to stop the player from doing something else?

 

[Jason_C]

Eh... I would say the game enters phases. Although it may be worded such that it seems like players do, I'd say the game does. Honestly, this is important:

this is a game based on a cartoon and comic book character....it has nothing to do with reality!

BINGO!!! That's it! YGO is a game based on battles between monsters. Think of it like watching the show, "Pokemon". The pokey battlers choose their pokemon, and also guide them through the fight. But it is the pokemon themselves that battle. YGO is the same way. MONSTERS battle. Not players. Players are there ONLY to see how well they can choose and guide their monsters, NOT to battle.

My concern was with the comments made by DaGuy stating that the DW monsters would not trigger from it, which infact they do...

He was being ironic. Pointing out that if we take the cards' text literally, it will lead to the inaccurate belief that players have anything to do with the duel. Which they do not. The game is based on the cards. The players only manipulate said cards.

-pssvr

 

[squid]

No, the effect is causing the discard event. The players may be performing the action, but the effect is controlling the entire event, and it is still a discard "by card effect."

My concern was with the comments made by DaGuy stating that the DW monsters would not trigger from it, which infact they do...

Oh, Im pretty sure he was being sarcastic, based off the *sigh* at the end of the post

 

[novastar]

I figured, he's too knowledgable to make that kind of a mistake... it's just a little dangerous, because people might get confused.

 

[Raijinili]

I, for one, never stopped believing in him.

Of course, I didn't exactly have a chance, but still.

 

[slither]

Eh... I would say the game enters phases. Although it may be worded such that it seems like players do, I'd say the game does.

Im not sure about that pssvr <no caps >, this would lead anyone to believe that the game "wins" or "loses", players declare when they are ready to continue on with the next phase, end their turn etc.