Enemy Controller question

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kansashoops

New Member
I just want to make sure this works as I think it does:

Opponent has one or more Scapegoat tokens in face up defense position. I have D.D. Assailant in attack position. I declare an attack on a token and ask for a response (assuming that my opponent has one or more cards set in his spell/trap zone). Opponent declines. I then chain Enemy Controller from my hand to the declaration of the attack, switching the token to attack position, and D.D. Assailant destroys him and does 1700 damage.

This is all kosher, correct?
 
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squid said:
Tkwiget, Im a bit lost. I see the chains going on, and it would appear that since each block started with a response to the attack declaration that there is no issue.

What are you getting at? I feel like Im missing some hidden meaning?
Click to expand...

I do not think there was. He was just showing the different situations. People get confused on how chain links work and so on. For example:

P1: Attacks with Gemini Elf against Gearfried the Iron Knight.
P2: Responds with Magic Cylinder.

The turn player has the ability to have priority and chain first, not your opponent.

For example, same scenario:

P2: Responds with Magic Cylinder, then chains its activation with Widespread Ruin.

That would be incorrect ONLY if P1 has nothing to chain toward P2 response using Magic Cylinder in the Battle Step.

So for Enemy Controller:

P1: Attacks with Gemini Elf against Gearfried the Iron Knight, and activates Enemy Controller.
P2: Responds with Magic Cylinder.

That would be incorrect because you do not declare an attack and then quickly activate a Spell or Trap card without your opponent even having the chance to respond to the attack in the first place.

Of course this is acceptable:

P1: Attacks with Gemini Elf against Gearfried the Iron Knight.
P2: Responds with Sakuretsu Armor.
P1: Chains with Enemy Controller, Tributes Gemini Elf and takes control of Gearfried the Iron Knight.
 
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I was merely giving examples that you can have multiple chains in the Battle Phase. =) Only the first one can be in response to the initial attack. The later chains can be activated, but not in direct response to the attack. Such as all those examples give. =)

IMO, the mechanics of this game remind me a lot about math. You have logic, rules, and facts you go by. In math problems you break up the situations in tiny pieces and then fit it all back together to make the answer correct. In the case of this game, each situation that requires a ruling requires logic, rules, and facts.

By breaking up each piece of a situation you can make a complex situation in this game more simple. Which is what you have to do with the Battle Phase. It's the most complex, or one of them anyway, part of the game.

<drinks more Pepsi>

So that's all I was trying to prove is that the Battle Phase according to the current "rules" is that you can have multiple chains in the Battle Phase. =)

Buuut, I think I'll give one more example. XD Just for the heck of it.


P1: Attacks P2's Attack Positioned Magician of Faith with Don Zaloog.
P2: Responds with Mirror Wall.
P1: Chains Dust Tornado.
P2: Chains Royal Decree to Dust Tornado.
P1: Chains Call of the Haunted to Royal Decree to bring back Jinzo.
P2: Chains Solemn Judgment to Call of the Haunted.
P1: Chains Trap Jammer to Solemn Judgment.
P2: Doesn't chain anything else, but has 2 face down Spell/Trap cards.

Chain Block ends, things start to resolve.

Link 1: Mirror Wall.
Link 2: Dust Tornado.
Link 3: Royal Decree.
Link 4: Call of the Haunted.
Link 5: Solemn Judgment.
Link 6: Trap Jammer.

Reverse that.

Link 6: Trap Jammer.
Link 5: Solemn Judgment.
Link 4: Call of the Haunted.
Link 3: Royal Decree.
Link 2: Dust Tornado.
Link 1: Mirror Wall.

Trap Jammer negates Solemn Judgment. Call of the Haunted resolves bringing back Jinzo. Jinzo's effect establishes on the field and Call of the Haunted, Royal Decree, Dust Tornado, and Mirror Wall are negated via Jinzo.

Call of the Haunted, Royal Decree, and Mirror Wall remain on the field and Dust Tornado goes to the Graveyard.

P2: Second response from P2 is activating Book of Moon on Jinzo.
P1: Doesn't have anything to chain with.
P2: Chains Enemy Controller on Don Zaloog to switch it to defense.

Chain Block ends, begin resolving Chain Block.

Link 1: Book of Moon.
Link 2: Enemy Controller.

Reverse that Chain Block.

Link 2: Enemy Controller.
Link 1: Book of Moon.

End result, Jinzo is turned face down, Call of the Haunted remains on the field. Royal Decree's effect applies to the field. Mirror Wall remains on the field. Don Zaloog is changed to Defense Position.


<drinks more Pepsi and grins> >=) Anyone that can read that and follow it is like, awesome in my book. Pretty straight forward, just read it SLOWLY...lol Maybe I should put this above the situation? Blah, whatever..lol
 
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@_@ I did something right??????? HOW!??!?!?!?!? XD

Well if you want, you can always blame John for giving me the drive to better myself as a judge. I try and put in as much time study up on mechanics as I can.
 
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Tiso said:
The turn player has the ability to have priority and chain first, not your opponent.
Click to expand...
This is almost correct statement. To make this statement more correct, change the word chain to respond. This statement is TRUE for just about EVERY EVENT that happens in this game.
Tiso said:
P1: Attacks with Gemini Elf against Gearfried the Iron Knight, and activates Enemy Controller.
P2: Responds with Magic Cylinder.
Click to expand...
This is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. P1 is responding to the attack declaration via Priority, and P2 is chaining to the activation of "Enemy Controller".
Tiso said:
That would be incorrect because you do not declare an attack and then quickly activate a Spell or Trap card without your opponent even having the chance to respond to the attack in the first place.
Click to expand...
I'll point back to the ability of the Turn Player to respond to almost every event 1st. This IS what Priority is.

Can somebody help me out here? I don't know how many ways to say the same thing over and over and over again.
 
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Well, I gotta go to the library soon, but I'll try and make it quick and simple. Mind you, it would only take me like a minute or two to get back on COG..

Skey is correct. The Turn Player can respond or chain to any event first before the other player can. This is exactly what Priority is. Just the process of who can activate what before the other person can. So activating cards to your own declared attack is completely legal. I've done it quite often in the past and it's been done on me too.

In actions such as summoning a monster, the Turn Player has priority to activate cards such as Torrential Tribute, Enemy Controller, Book of Moon, Compulsory Evacuation Device, etc..

However with cards such as, King Tiger Wanghu (I think) on the field and I summon a monster such as Exiled Force, King Tiger cuts into my priority to blow up Exiled Force.

The mechanics can be tricky to grasp.

Just like Stumbling. Stumbling can cut priority out for a player when that player summons a monster. It has to trigger, just like King Tiger has too.

@_@ Explaining priority is tricky..lol

EDIT: An explain of Stumbling cutting out the priority to use an effect of the Turn Player would be that ruling with Exiled Force.

But I do feel like I've missed something. XD
 
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skey23 said:
This is almost correct statement. To make this statement more correct, change the word chain to respond. This statement is TRUE for just about EVERY EVENT that happens in this game.
This is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. P1 is responding to the attack declaration via Priority, and P2 is chaining to the activation of "Enemy Controller".
I'll point back to the ability of the Turn Player to respond to almost every event 1st. This IS what Priority is.

Can somebody help me out here? I don't know how many ways to say the same thing over and over and over again.
Click to expand...

Because you have the last part mixed up. The turn player has priority, but that does not mean you declare a attack, then activate your card right away. It means, as the turn player when your opponent responds you have the ability to always chain first. Opponent Flips over Widespread Ruin, then chains with Magic Cylinder. That would not work because the turn player is able to chain Widespread Ruin with something if they can. You have the concept of priority right, you just are applying it wrong in this situation.
 
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Tiso said:
Because you have the last part mixed up. The turn player has priority, but that does not mean you declare a attack, then activate your card right away. It means, as the turn player when your opponent responds you have the ability to always chain first. Opponent Flips over Widespread Ruin, then chains with Magic Cylinder. That would not work because the turn player is able to chain Widespread Ruin with something if they can. You have the concept of priority right, you just are applying it wrong in this situation.
Click to expand...
But there is no wrong situation to apply priority. There is no point in the game in which neither player has priority. Priority goes back and forth between players, but it neither comes nor goes, it just wobbles. No offense, sir, but Mr. Key is just plain right, no ifs ands or buts about it.
-pssvr
 
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Just for a brief moment I'd like to point this out.

People still aren't clear on how you can chain Sakuretsu Armor to cards like Mystical Space Typhoon or Dust Tornado, or whatever in response to the attack.

Like this example.

P1: Attacks with Berserk Gorilla to P2's Spirit Reaper.
P2: Responds with Mystical Space Typhoon, targetting P1's face down Dust Tornado.
P1: Chains Dust Tornado to destroy P2's face down Sakuretsu Armor.
P2: Chains Sakurestu Armor.

That's a legal situation. Since everything was activated in response to the Berserk Gorilla attacking.

In your example of Widespread Ruin and Magic Cylinder, it would work if it went like this.

Assume P1 has 2 Berserk Gorilla.

P1: Attacks with Berserk Gorilla to P2's Spirit Reaper.
P2: Responds with Widespread Ruin.
P1: Doesn't have anything to chain to.
P2: Chains Magic Cylinder to Widespread Ruin.

Chain Block ends, resolve the Chain Block.

Link 1: Widespread Ruin.
Link 2: Magic Cylinder.

Reverse that Chain Block order.

Link 2: Magic Cylinder.
Link 1: Widespread Ruin.

The activation timing of those cards are correct. There for Magic Cylinder would negate the attack of the first Berserk Gorilla and deal 2000 damage to P1. Widespread Ruin would then kick in and destroy one of the two Berserk Gorilla.

That chain is legal, but only if the Turn Player has nothing to chain to Widespread Ruin.

EDIT: Err, found one minor error in all that.

Even if the Turn Player does have something to chain to Widespread Ruin, P2 could still chain Magic Cylinder since the timing is still correct. Since the whole Chain Block is created in responce to a monster attack.
 
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Tiso said:
Because you have the last part mixed up. The turn player has priority, but that does not mean you declare a attack, then activate your card right away. It means, as the turn player when your opponent responds you have the ability to always chain first. Opponent Flips over Widespread Ruin, then chains with Magic Cylinder. That would not work because the turn player is able to chain Widespread Ruin with something if they can. You have the concept of priority right, you just are applying it wrong in this situation.
Click to expand...

Skey is correct. The turn player has Priority to create a chain in response to the last event. That is actually the "definition" of Priority. Now something like Stumbling can butt in and automatically create the chain that the turn player had Priority to create, but the turn player has first chance to activate an effect to create a chain.
 
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@_@ I think I'm being ignored again. @_@

All that typing and not one bet of acknowledgement.

Skey is correct. The only reason why you could doubt him is because not very many people actually use priority when their Turn Player in their attack. Because if you think about it, you'd have these situations all the time.

P1: Attacks and activates Mystical Space Typhoon.
P2: Chains Sakuretsu Armor/Widespread Ruin/Dimension Wall/Magic Cylinder/etc. to Mystical Space Typhoon which is targetting <insert one of listed cards here>.

But I'm doubtful some players are even aware they can chain those kind of cards like that in a chain block created in response to an attack.

This is where complex chains come into play. That six link Chain Block is a prime example of one. Multiple things are activated and multiple things resolving or attempting too.

Sure, Turn Player has priority to respond to events first, but that doesn't mean that the Turn Player will.

The fact that cards that require a monster to attack still aren't missing their activation timing. The Chain Block is still being activated in response to the monster attack.

Blah, I feel like I'm talking to this computer moniter as I'm typing all this up. -_-
 
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Tkwiget said:
@_@ I think I'm being ignored again. @_@

All that typing and not one bet of acknowledgement.

Skey is correct. The only reason why you could doubt him is because not very many people actually use priority when their Turn Player in their attack. Because if you think about it, you'd have these situations all the time.

P1: Attacks and activates Mystical Space Typhoon.
P2: Chains Sakuretsu Armor/Widespread Ruin/Dimension Wall/Magic Cylinder/etc. to Mystical Space Typhoon which is targetting <insert one of listed cards here>.

But I'm doubtful some players are even aware they can chain those kind of cards like that in a chain block created in response to an attack.

This is where complex chains come into play. That six link Chain Block is a prime example of one. Multiple things are activated and multiple things resolving or attempting too.

Sure, Turn Player has priority to respond to events first, but that doesn't mean that the Turn Player will.

The fact that cards that require a monster to attack still aren't missing their activation timing. The Chain Block is still being activated in response to the monster attack.

Blah, I feel like I'm talking to this computer moniter as I'm typing all this up. -_-
Click to expand...

Are you sure about all of that? Is there like some official document or place to actually get confirmation on:

P1: Attacks with Gemini Elf and activates Rush Reckessly.
P2: Chains with Magic Cylinder.

If that is the case then Yu-Gi-Oh! makes no sense. I mean if that is the case what is there to stop me from saying turn priority for:

P1: Summons Vorse Raider and activates Mystical Space Typhoon in response to its summon on Face-Down Card 1 on opponent's side of the field.
P2: Responds with Solemn Judgment to ????? (what would it respond to, the summon or the MST)

If this is how Turn Priority works now I would like to be able to read more indepth guides on this type of scenario.
 
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There's one thing that stops that. Spell Speed 3 effects supercede player priority. So you have to check to make sure the summon is legal before proceeding.

-chaosruler
 
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*chalks nine up for skey, three up for tkwiget, and one up for chaosruler* Once again, skey is correct.

But before there is any confusion (in my case it's way too late for that!), let me point out that spell speed 3 only supercedes priority in the case of the exact instant a monster is summoned. There is a window that exists after a summon in which only Royal Oppression, Horn of Heaven, and Solemn Judgment can be activated. It is a sub-space warp bubble that simply exists outside of normal game rules and time, and was created entirely for those three cards.

-pssvr
 
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In both your examples it would be legal.

Rush Recklessly (unless you mean in the Damage Step) is activated in response to the Turn Player's monster declaring an attack. Magic Cylinder and other cards with the same activating timing only need to have the last thing that's happening be a declared attack. That's called a game fact.

In the case of a Spell/Trap card being activated in response to a monster being summoned, you do indeed have to look at if the monster was legally summoned for a Spell Speed 3 card to be activated.

In the case of your Solemn Judgment example, Solemn Judgment would be chained to Mystical Space Typhoon, not to the monster being declared summoned.

Since Solemn Judgment and Horn of Heaven only can negate a summoning by being activated in response to the declaration of the summoning.

So if Solemn Judgment was to be used in that example, it would be used when the monster declares they're summoning one. Which in that case, Mystical Space Typhoon couldn't legally activate in response to the summoning due to the fact Solemn Judgment is Spell Speed 3 and the fact of when you have to activate it to negate a summoning.

=)
 
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Tkwiget said:
In both your examples it would be legal.

Rush Recklessly (unless you mean in the Damage Step) is activated in response to the Turn Player's monster declaring an attack. Magic Cylinder and other cards with the same activating timing only need to have the last thing that's happening be a declared attack. That's called a game fact.

In the case of a Spell/Trap card being activated in response to a monster being summoned, you do indeed have to look at if the monster was legally summoned for a Spell Speed 3 card to be activated.

In the case of your Solemn Judgment example, Solemn Judgment would be chained to Mystical Space Typhoon, not to the monster being declared summoned.

Since Solemn Judgment and Horn of Heaven only can negate a summoning by being activated in response to the declaration of the summoning.

So if Solemn Judgment was to be used in that example, it would be used when the monster declares they're summoning one. Which in that case, Mystical Space Typhoon couldn't legally activate in response to the summoning due to the fact Solemn Judgment is Spell Speed 3 and the fact of when you have to activate it to negate a summoning.

=)
Click to expand...

So just to be clear on what I can and cannot do.

This would be legal:

P1: Gemini Elf attacks. Activates Mystical Space Typhoon on face-down.
P2: Chains Mystical Space Typhoon with Magic Cylinder.

I still fail to see how that make sense. I know I have read the priority articles here before and I remember the issue of Tribe Infecting Virus came up.

P1: Normal Summons Tribe Infecting Virus.
P2: Responds with Bottomless Trap Hole.
P1: Activates the effect of Tribe Infecting Virus.

Chain Link =

Tribe Infecting Virus Effect
Bottomless Trap Hole

Now am I right on that?
 
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In reality, the opponent shouldn't even have to ask if the summoner wants to use priority. They HAVE priority. The game cannot continue unless they either USE priority or PASS it. Someone once told me if I don't call my priority within 5 seconds after a summon, they had a chance to respond. Then when I argued, that person said that they were a level 9 judge. Gives you food for thought.
-pssvr
 
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Priority is only passed if not used when a monster is summoned that has an Ignition Effect. Such as TIV..



In the case of this example.

P1: Gemini Elf attacks. Activates Mystical Space Typhoon on face-down.
P2: Chains Mystical Space Typhoon with Magic Cylinder.

It is legal.

The game fact that's in motion is that Gemini Elf is the last thing happening. There for the timing of activation for Magic Cylinder is still correct. The entire Chain Block is being created in response to the declared attack, which Magic Cylinder is in a chain to.

There for, when you resolve the chain, Magic Cylinder resolves first negating and dealing damage. Then Mystical Space Typhoon resolves but the effect Disappears cause the target isn't there anymore.

I can't explain it anymore clear.......
 
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