Question's question

FiendMaster

New Member
What if I have a monster card says, "black luster soldier - envoy of the beginning" in the graveyard and my opponent call " black luster soldier". Can I say that its the wrong monster and special summon BLS-envoy to the field (assume he was summoned properly in the beginning)

Question
 
densetsu_x said:
Well not exactly... with the Sasake Samurai ruling, he did specify which kind it was by the ATK though he didn't have the number... and as for Chaos Emperor Dragon / CED I could almost see that since there is no other monster like that (currently anyway it is a class by itself)...

But notice that none of the examples even tried to deal with the BLS/BLS-EotB issue. That is different than having an errata-ed "Luster Dragon".
UGGGGGGH!!!

Clarity is EVERYTHING!!! lol That was our biggest point!!! I'd almost say we're back to square one....
 
When I first saw this card see play the judges were more strict with it's execution. Never bothered me, especially since I didn't, nor ever have, run it. But even so, the intentions of your opponent is just fine, but I feel that playing fast and loose with the card's effect, rather than being precise like we are with every other card effect, will lead to more disharmony.

It should be the official card text called. If it's not ruled this way then I can see more arguments developing from it then if the rules were "hard and fast." If it is ruled this way then it makes things much neater and cleaner. You state the official name of the card making no exceptions for cards who's names have been errated. No Cyber Harpie Lady if they incorrectly refer to it as Harpie Lady, because I'm looking for the official card text, not it's effect text. No Sasuke Samurai if you you exclude the numbers. No Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning if you leave the Envoy part out.

If you don't enforce precision then you create leeway. And people love to wiggle when there is sufficient wiggle room. We may not see it yet but give this message from Kevin enough time to circulate through the Grapevine and watch it get twisted to the point were people start misapplying it to othe rulings that have nothing to do with Question. (Much the way they did when it was handed down that monsters equipped to Thousand-Eyes Restrict and Relinquished are face-down Equip Spell Cards.)

If you don't know how the effect works, well then how is that any different then when I Normal Summon Gia Soul during your Battle Phase through the effect of Ultimate Offering? Very few of my opponent's know thats how that card works. But it's not my fault if it gives me the advantage over them. Neither is it unfair nor dishonorable.

And if I'm playing a young child in a tournament that I paid fifteen to thirty dollars to enter, then yes, I'm going to be picky about how the cards are played, regardless of his/her age. We are a one income family of three, and tourneys are a luxury for me. If I manage to scrape up enough dough to enter one, then it's with the intention to go as far as I can, not to forfiet, essentially, to a child whose parents don't care if they waste thirty bucks on their kid's each and every whim.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone, of any age, from entering a tournament if they don't play the game very well, because that's one of the best places to gain the neccassry experience to become a better player. But it's the "big leagues" as it were. And it's not my responsibility to hold back just because my opponent doesn't play very well. He won't learn anything that way, especially if he's a youngster.
 
It should be the official card text called. If it's not ruled this way then I can see more arguments developing from it then if the rules were "hard and fast." If it is ruled this way then it makes things much neater and cleaner. You state the official name of the card making no exceptions for cards who's names have been errated. No Cyber Harpie Lady if they incorrectly refer to it as Harpie Lady, because I'm looking for the official card text, not it's effect text. No Sasuke Samurai if you you exclude the numbers. No Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning if you leave the Envoy part out.

So basically you'd get Cyber Harpie summoned if they said Harpie Lady? just me being consfused..just curious
 
Digital Jedi said:
Yea, that's what I was saying. Sorry for anmy confusion. :)

And by game mechanic alone that would be wrong. Calling "Harpie Lady" covers all of them. If it didn't then you wouldn't be able to summon "Harpie Lady Sisters" when "Cyber Harpie Lady" is on the field.
 
densetsu_x said:
And by game mechanic alone that would be wrong. Calling "Harpie Lady" covers all of them. If it didn't then you wouldn't be able to summon "Harpie Lady Sisters" when "Cyber Harpie Lady" is on the field.
What I'm suggesting, is that Question should look for the official card name. Harpie Lady is not the official card name of the 1 2 3 and Cyber Harpie Ladys. It is an effect modifier that also happens to apply to deck construction. But it wouldn't be contradicting any game mechanic, if the ruling that I was suggesting was looking for the official card name and not for any modifier's placed on that card. It would be no different than a card that searches for an original ATK as opposed to it's modified ATK.
 
Whos up for getting UDE to errata the card once and for all and make it say something more concrete -.-. I mean it would be nice for the card to be more concrete, more precise and the 'ruling' to be a little less vague.
 
Spike Kaiba said:
Whos up for getting UDE to errata the card once and for all and make it say something more concrete -.-. I mean it would be nice for the card to be more concrete, more precise and the 'ruling' to be a little less vague.

Do you mean who's up for getting Konami to errata the card? I don't think UDE can errata card text on it's own. I'm certainly for getting a more concrete direction on this card.
 
densetsu_x said:
Well not exactly... with the Sasake Samurai ruling, he did specify which kind it was by the ATK though he didn't have the number... and as for Chaos Emperor Dragon / CED I could almost see that since there is no other monster like that (currently anyway it is a class by itself)...

But notice that none of the examples even tried to deal with the BLS/BLS-EotB issue. That is different than having an errata-ed "Luster Dragon".
To be honest Curtis' post covers all possible scenarios. The specific ones mentioned are not important.

He states that "intention" is what is important, and the only fair way to rule on intention is with a Judge. Which is pretty much what John said from the start... a good piece of advice.
 
John Danker said:
Do you mean who's up for getting Konami to errata the card? I don't think UDE can errata card text on it's own. I'm certainly for getting a more concrete direction on this card.

Well...they can but they can't put it out until of course Konami approve it. But you got the point lol
 
But even the judge has to be careful about "Intention". After all, say I have 3 Unerrata-ed "Luster Dragon #2" along with 3 "Luster Dragon" (not that far of a stretch... "Heart of the Underdog" + "Spirit Ryu" anyone?) and if LD2 is the bottom card and he just says "Luster Dragon", he better qualify that awfully fast. After all... maybe I am running both... maybe I am running BLS and BLS-EotB. I can agree with "intention" but only to a point. It's a very shaky line for the player and judge to have to deal with. (Of course, "Question" is better played with "Painful Choice" where since you have multiple cards hitting the GY at the same time, you can "hide" the bottom one in a manner of speaking).
 
If he were to call "Luster Dragon" i would ask for more info. If he or she said the "Tribute monster" then i would rule based on that. That seems to be how to handle it.

This is a card that can be a HUGE pain is the rear, so the best thing is call a Judge.
 
novastar said:
If he were to call "Luster Dragon" i would ask for more info. If he or she said the "Tribute monster" then i would rule based on that. That seems to be how to handle it.

This is a card that can be a HUGE pain is the rear, so the best thing is call a Judge.
At the same time, it's misleading and also gives your opponent a chance to backtrack if he really wasnt sure at first.

When I say "misleading", say he did guess right with Luster Dragon (but doesnt say, the "1900" one), and you say "Which one??" and since he was really only guessing that it was Luster Dragon, but in the back of his mind he was thinking the MFC version was #2, he comes back and says, "The #2 one", and you say that its the wrong one, well, this isn't similar to "Dice Re-Roll" or "Second Coin Toss", where you can guess twice if the first guess is not to your liking, and essentially that's what it would be, "Guessing Twice".

So, asking your opponent for clarification may give him the impression he did not guess correctly, and since you asked him to clarify, you accept the fact that he might change his guess altogether by saying, "I actually meant Jinzo", to which you HAVE Jinzo as your bottom card.
 
novastar said:
If he were to call "Luster Dragon" i would ask for more info. If he or she said the "Tribute monster" then i would rule based on that. That seems to be how to handle it.

This is a card that can be a HUGE pain is the rear, so the best thing is call a Judge.


This card was later re-printed with the #2 correct? If I were using it I'd put out the extra couple of £ to buy one that is up to date out right. If people did that that's on possible arguement out of the way
 
It was reprinted in the Kaiba Evolution deck I believe and it's a common. Both of the prints of the original LOD version were super rare and misprinted. Now, it IS possible to get a corrected print version from the re-released LOD-ENXXX series cards that were shipped with the Master Collection, but good luck with that.
 
So let me get this straight, you're saying that *scenario moment* in the Final of the World Championship you play Question and your opponent calls Black Luster Soldier when it's BLS Envoy at the bottom, you let him get that call and he takes the title on the next turn, you're saying that's perfectly fine and you're perfectly happy about it because it's all about honor? rubbish
Actually, I would say, "Which one?" I would give him a chance to amend his call. And yes, I would do that.

Say for instance you play the card, let it slide, Mr Newbie beats you and goes onto the next opponent, whom also plays Question but plays it more precisely, asking for the exact card name and the Newbie losses because of it. He's then gonna go complainin to a judge saying you told him it's fine to play the card this way when it's not, so there you go you've gotten a newb knocked out because you were too lenient on your own play of the card.
That should never happen as I would warn the player to be specific the next time.

And if I'm playing a young child in a tournament that I paid fifteen to thirty dollars to enter, then yes, I'm going to be picky about how the cards are played, regardless of his/her age. We are a one income family of three, and tourneys are a luxury for me. If I manage to scrape up enough dough to enter one, then it's with the intention to go as far as I can, not to forfiet, essentially, to a child whose parents don't care if they waste thirty bucks on their kid's each and every whim.[/QUOTE]
And you know this about the kid how?

At the same time, it's misleading and also gives your opponent a chance to backtrack if he really wasnt sure at first.
That works both ways. Duel mind games, man.
 
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