Let me aks a question. How many of you have seriously tried to run something that wasn't a "winning" deck in a tournament format? I mean consistantly. Repeatedly. Without giving up.
Wow ... SJC-EN003 is ... Shrink
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Every chance I get to play, I play one of my 'fun' creations. I refuse to run anything that even resembles 'Cookie Cutter', but that's just my personal preference. I mean, go back and look at the last time I posted a 'cookie' deck in the Advanced Format section. I do this even when I play in a Regional, AND I did this the last time I played in a Shonen Jump. There are some of us who don't play to win. We play to have fun, hence the statement in my signature.
EmeraldDragon
Bringer of Doom
I havent participated in any really big tournaments but the ones i have done have always been non cookie decks. In fact the guy that won the last tourny i was in (Using mostly my cards BTW) has been playing burn for 4 years. He uses it in every tournament. EVERY one. Thing is it does real good. Its just that constantly going against cookie of course youre gonna end up being overpowered.
Digital Jedi said:
Would Gravekeepers count? I've been playing them for a long time now, maybe a year or more. I used to run CC, then I got bored seeing the same thing, discovered the awesomeness of GK's and played them, taking down all the CC decks ran at my local tournament.
I've played them twice at regional tournaments, they didn't fare too well, so much cookie it was too much, but I still play them to this day.
I have had plenty of tournaments, where I've lost very badly, I get angry, but I calm down and await the next tournament. I have tried running other decks, like Clown control, or Spellcasters (Dark Magician, etc) but I couldn't stay away from my GK's for long, so I'm still using them to this day, and probably will continue to use them for a long time.
Sakura Sakamoto
Active Member
to answer digital jedis question.
at the first regional i went to i took a blueeyes white dragon deck.
wthis had 3 blue eyes and a jinzo in it.
for my second tournament i think i took another blues deck and mixed in the fushion materia for dark paladin this also held jinzo.
my third tournament deck was another odd blue eyes deck
which had 3 blueeyes the fusion materia for dark paladin again
the fusion materia for king dragun along with mystical knight of jackel,great maju garzett and jinzo.
my 4th tournament deck went for lower level tribute monsters
6 in all dark ruler ha des,the end of anubis,jinzo,dark driceratops
cybernetic magicain and mobius the frost monarche.
then there was my special summon black luster soldier envoy of the begining.
not sure which tournament it was but i tried a mystic swordman deck which flopped as i got the level up effect of
mystic swordsman lv2 wrong.
now i take decks which are more cookie than anything.
i would like to be origional like i used to be but i just seem to
let go of the deck i'm using as i like the way it plays and works.
i'm going to post my deck in the advanced format forum.
please come and tell me how much of it is cookie.
at the first regional i went to i took a blueeyes white dragon deck.
wthis had 3 blue eyes and a jinzo in it.
for my second tournament i think i took another blues deck and mixed in the fushion materia for dark paladin this also held jinzo.
my third tournament deck was another odd blue eyes deck
which had 3 blueeyes the fusion materia for dark paladin again
the fusion materia for king dragun along with mystical knight of jackel,great maju garzett and jinzo.
my 4th tournament deck went for lower level tribute monsters
6 in all dark ruler ha des,the end of anubis,jinzo,dark driceratops
cybernetic magicain and mobius the frost monarche.
then there was my special summon black luster soldier envoy of the begining.
not sure which tournament it was but i tried a mystic swordman deck which flopped as i got the level up effect of
mystic swordsman lv2 wrong.
now i take decks which are more cookie than anything.
i would like to be origional like i used to be but i just seem to
let go of the deck i'm using as i like the way it plays and works.
i'm going to post my deck in the advanced format forum.
please come and tell me how much of it is cookie.
krazykidpsx
New Member
Dj you know aswell as anybody im the last person that would run CC
the last deck I played was this.
It did fairly well it even won me a tournament... the fact that many players didnt run the same thing i did and they loved their chaos decks so much i just had to find a way to dismattle them. and so i came up with this, evading absolutly anything and everything an opponent would put up.
heck through luck i even beat what was popular back then, and that was that Ben Kai deck, man i remember seeing that deck it was a ticking timebomb.
the last deck I played was this.
Solitude "the movie" said:
It did fairly well it even won me a tournament... the fact that many players didnt run the same thing i did and they loved their chaos decks so much i just had to find a way to dismattle them. and so i came up with this, evading absolutly anything and everything an opponent would put up.
heck through luck i even beat what was popular back then, and that was that Ben Kai deck, man i remember seeing that deck it was a ticking timebomb.
krazykidpsx
New Member
somebody has a naughty fetish.Tiso said:
::blush:: lol
EmeraldDragon
Bringer of Doom
Eeeeeeewwwwww. Tiso you bewtter not try playing me with that deck. Id be scared to snatch or swap stuff from you. It would be very sticky by the looks of things......... eeeewww
Wow. I've been reading this thread for these six pages now, and not once have I seen the suggestions that maybe the guy developed his Deck on his own.
Think about it: You're going to a huge tournament, featuring an unique prize card (along with other prizes). You're going to want to win. And how will you do that? Marshall the best cards at your disposal. And these cards just so happen to be the ones proclaimed by many as "Cookie Cutter". Okay, so a lot of people use them. You want to know why? Because they're good. They work. They're mostly stand-alone things, and they all do their jobs well. Where's the harm in using the most powerful cards around in situations where it really matters?
But no. You guys instantly assume the winner copied his Deck entirely from the Interweb from one of a million websites, and put no effort of his own into it. He probably did, even if he copied it. He'd at least want to know the Deck he was using. It's one thing to look at a card list, but it's quite another to play with the cards and see how they fare. After practise he may have changed one or two cards, but even if he did what he was left with at the end was a good Deck. What's wrong with using it?
"Cookie Cutter" is harmful to original players. All too often I see people (mostly here, actually, since I never frequent anywhere else) going, "Well, I won't ever use such-and-such-a-card, because it's CC". So? These people want to distance themselves from the idea that they are "mindless Netdeckers" that they won't even consider using cards that would be beneficial to their Deck ideas. Instead they find other, usually weaker cards, to fill in instead.
"Cookie Cutter" Decks aren't the problem. It's Netdeckers. Sure, some Decks will look like the CC stuff, but if they're made by people themselves, and have been worked at properly to make them the best around, then I don't have a problem with it. And, to some extent, I don't even have a problem with Netdeckers. You gotta look somewhere for inspiration.
The trouble only comes when these people decide to use other people's Decks simply because they've seen them work before, rather than put effort into them to customise them. And when they all do that, you get this metagame thing in which everyone plays Decks they haven't built, haven't tested or modified to suit themselves, and are only metagame because there are so many people who simply can't be bothered to put any effort into things.
I blame television. More specifically I blame the Yu-Gi-Oh! show, but for entirely unrelated reasons (the card pool).
Think about it: You're going to a huge tournament, featuring an unique prize card (along with other prizes). You're going to want to win. And how will you do that? Marshall the best cards at your disposal. And these cards just so happen to be the ones proclaimed by many as "Cookie Cutter". Okay, so a lot of people use them. You want to know why? Because they're good. They work. They're mostly stand-alone things, and they all do their jobs well. Where's the harm in using the most powerful cards around in situations where it really matters?
But no. You guys instantly assume the winner copied his Deck entirely from the Interweb from one of a million websites, and put no effort of his own into it. He probably did, even if he copied it. He'd at least want to know the Deck he was using. It's one thing to look at a card list, but it's quite another to play with the cards and see how they fare. After practise he may have changed one or two cards, but even if he did what he was left with at the end was a good Deck. What's wrong with using it?
"Cookie Cutter" is harmful to original players. All too often I see people (mostly here, actually, since I never frequent anywhere else) going, "Well, I won't ever use such-and-such-a-card, because it's CC". So? These people want to distance themselves from the idea that they are "mindless Netdeckers" that they won't even consider using cards that would be beneficial to their Deck ideas. Instead they find other, usually weaker cards, to fill in instead.
"Cookie Cutter" Decks aren't the problem. It's Netdeckers. Sure, some Decks will look like the CC stuff, but if they're made by people themselves, and have been worked at properly to make them the best around, then I don't have a problem with it. And, to some extent, I don't even have a problem with Netdeckers. You gotta look somewhere for inspiration.
The trouble only comes when these people decide to use other people's Decks simply because they've seen them work before, rather than put effort into them to customise them. And when they all do that, you get this metagame thing in which everyone plays Decks they haven't built, haven't tested or modified to suit themselves, and are only metagame because there are so many people who simply can't be bothered to put any effort into things.
I blame television. More specifically I blame the Yu-Gi-Oh! show, but for entirely unrelated reasons (the card pool).
Blackscorp
Poison?... Loaded!!
Ok, this is sick... I was searching EBay, whe i found this.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/YUGIOH-Shonen-Jump-Prize-Card-Shrink-SJC-EN003_W0QQitemZ8809621196QQcategoryZ31395QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I believed that Cyber-Stein was the last of its kind.........
http://cgi.ebay.com/YUGIOH-Shonen-Jump-Prize-Card-Shrink-SJC-EN003_W0QQitemZ8809621196QQcategoryZ31395QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I believed that Cyber-Stein was the last of its kind.........
Did not take Emon long to sell that. That is what really irks me. White upper class kid with no job and still in high school got his parents to send him to some championship on their dime using a CC Deck that no one should be proud of only to turn around and have a profit like that? Now that is not cool.
No, wrong. All those cards in the Deck were the best cards for the job. The theme is mostly irrelevant here, except if you consider "winning" a theme.Tiso said:
Yes, anyone could have made that Deck. Anyone could make a Water Dragon Deck. Anyone could make an Insect Deck. I have nothing against people who make Decks, regardless of their contents. It may be "CC" to some people, but to me it isn't. That's because those people made their Decks. They didn't copy them. My argument is against the copiers.
The Decks are copied. They may vary with a card missing or two, but the Deck is still the same being played as everyone else. Those cards were the best for the job? So I suppose Skelengel was best for the job, after all with its weak stats and all? Oh and Return From the Different Dimension, that too was the best card for the job. That card has no other use outside of returning RFG monsters to your field. How do you accomplish that? Chaos Sorcerer for the most part. The theme is important. Just putting cards together in a Deck and calling it a day is not what Konami intended for people to do. Having Decks with no theme is just an insult to the game itself. Winning should not be what everyone is concerned about, and sadly it is that mentallity you demonstrated that is what is killing this game BIG TIME!
Only if the Decks are indeed copied is your argument valid.Tiso said:
Okay, the Deck does have a theme. It works with itself. All the cards in the Deck either work alone, or help or are helped by other cards in the Deck. It still takes skill to do that. Sure, it may not be a WATER theme or a Burn theme, but so what? It's still valid.
I'll agree with you on the winning thing, but only to a point. Sure, in casual Duels the aim is to enjoy yourself. Throw your cares to the wind, let your imagination flow, and other such metaphors. But in tournaments, and particularly one of the biggest tournaments around, I understand if the participants would rather try to win than see how they manage with their Skull Servant Deck they've just come up with. And in those situations, well, you should probably use an easy and powerful Deck that gives a lot of wins, as opposed to your Harpie Lady Deck that gives 29% wins on average.
And I'm only arguing for these particular Deck types because everyone else seems to hate them for no logical reason other than "we see them all over the place". Well, that's the fault of the copiers, surely? Not the makers of the Decks themselves? Don't bring them into the line of fire.
I don't know much (if anything) about Deck building. I've hardly done any of that. I've never entered any kind of tournament. The most I've done are a few Duels with my (then) 10-year-old brother with what were half Starter Decks and half random other cards. So I don't know how you guys feel when you claim to constantly face "CC" all over the place. I suppose that makes me an impartial observer.
As I've said several times before, don't blame the Decks or the people who make them. Blame the people that use the Decks without thinking. I hate to see innocent people being flamed.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
While I understand your point, I really dont understand why it's important that people can't want to win...Tiso said:
If Im playing Blackjack, I'm not going to try something different, like taking a hit on 20, just because no one else is doing it. Im playing to win, and I want the best hand I can get doing it.
While I cant determine the outcome by picking the best cards, I surely do not want anyone else to win over me, and that's the nature of most games.
It's a game of chance, but if you CAN control the outcome, why not? If you could always be dealt a Ace and a King, would you pass that aside to take the luck of the Draw?
If you just like the thrill of the challenge, you play the game as it was meant to be played. If you want a "sure" outcome, you go with the Ace/King Combo. Neither one is altogether bad, unless you are playing against the sure winner.
This game isnt about making "Theme Based Decks", or else the Packs would be more consistent, and you wouldnt have to wait 3 years to get more "Plant" type monsters or "Dinosaur" type. Sets would be released as Type Specific, with at least enough to support a full theme, which would be powered up like level monsters in future sets, or "Support Sets".
People are free to mix and match if they want. Its no different than trying to find the best players in a Sports Draft. Why would anyone want to short change themselves if they DONT have to?
I want to win as much as the next person, but winning at all costs? Let us say you dueled 10 people in matches throughout the day and they all had near identical decks. Your record is 1-10. Is that fun? You want to continue dueling those same people using the same Deck that you use or that others use, OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER?
english chef
Truly English
Tiso said:
Hmmm- on the rare occaisions that I have gone to a regionals (using GK and Inaba/ojama/panda decks), The first few people I played were usually using much the same deck. Then as I won a few, lost a few, and settled into the mid-level of the players, I started to find some more interesting decks. These were good players (perhaps not top-rate, but then, neither am I) who were playing with innovative/different decks. We played, and some beat me, and I beat some of them, and we talked afterwards, and we came to the conclusion that the most interesting games were those against the 'different' decks. Furthermore, these people were generally a lot nicer that those playing ultra competitively. Im not saying that those playing CC were total gits, but that they didnt come across as well as the oddballs.
Personally, I lay a lot of the problem at the feet of the teams out there. Everytime I see an announcement on a website that John Smith of Team Unoriginal placed 3rd, and that Jane Doe of Team Miserable came 2nd, and look at the decklisting of all the top 8, and see that most of the teams run the same cards and that on the rare occaision that an oddball deck gets listed, it is not a team member who is playing it. If 200 people go to an event, and this comprises of 100 team members, then those 100 team members will generally have similar decks. Only the lone wolfs are likely to play something unusual, as the teams will not allow individuality. This I think is the crux of the matter.
Ban teams, and originality would be more respectable.
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